2020 Frostbite 200 yd Postal

[Woody]

Beginning to wonder if something else is going on. Got to the range early. No wind, dead calm. Heavy cloud cover, 32 degrees. I set up four wind flags, so I could see every little puff. Fired three rounds off target then let er rip. Not a puff on any flag. First three rounds were touching. Number four jumped up two inches. I cranked .5 min down and the next four rounds continued the into a 1.157 inch group. Finally shots nine and ten opened the group to 3.300 inches. Hmmm. Not sure what this target is trying to tell me. I thought I managed the rifle and bore condition. Thinking maybe fore end tension? This is the same HW 45-70 and load that I posted the 2.804 inch group with.

Jan 28 target.JPG

Woody

[BFD]

Try removing the fore end, Woody. And then if it happens again as you are shooting be ready to continue immediately into the next group without letting the barrel cool down. See if it stabilizes after a while.

[Woody]

I'm leaning in that direction too Brent.

Woody

[Woody]

I'm leaning in that direction too Brent.

Woody

[Kurt]

I used to do a lot of pipe welding and at times I needed to draw the pipe some by heating one side to draw it for straightening it by placing a wet rag on one side. I wonder if the wood has enough heat sink at a tight point be enough to act like a heat sink moving the barrel enough to throw a shot.
I had one rifle that would walk more then what you have Woody and I ordered some glass bedding from Brownnells acraglass and full bedded the fore arm. This settled it down but still not enough. I would think a two piece stock would not need this other than making a slight gap between the forearm and action.

[BFD]

It might not be the forearm at all. That would be the test. It could be the barrel/receiver.

[Woody]

I'm not sure what you mean by barrel/receiver. I've reloaded 20 rounds for tomorrow to give it another go with a loose forearm. Do you mean not square or tight?

Woody

[BFD]

I'm not sure what you mean by barrel/receiver. I've reloaded 20 rounds for tomorrow to give it another go with a loose forearm. Do you mean not square or tight?

Woody

Not square would do it. My Axtell was WAY off and she climbed like crazy. As soon as I pulled the barrel I understood where all my frustration was coming from.

[Woody]

Yep, not square would do it. Mike Lewis screwed this barrel on a year ago, and although, I've shot some good scores with it, I just can't seen to get back to where I used to be. Of course that may just be age catching up to me. I just hate to think it's me.

Woody

Mike has one of the best "smith" reps when it comes to single shots.

[SFogler]

Since you mention it Woody, these two targets are common in my load development. Two or three almost touching then two way off and almost touching. A pattern of two groups within the overall group. The groups go like you noticed - not consecutive shots. My target shows two close then two close again but way off from the first two then the last shot back down in the same vertical as the first two. The other target shows the two group pattern but the shots went up and down not three then two???? I am shooting from a bench with all the variables considered (hold on the rifle, tang staff straight and sights tight, no cap bill interference, no stock heel hitting the bench during recoil, null spot on the rest, all the usual load techniques like weighing powder and bullet, annealing, etc) This is why I have not posted a good group with this rifle yet. If the vertical was subtracted the groups would be "postable." This happens with other rifles too. I am going to try shooting prone from my cross sticks - that 's the only thing I can think of that I haven't tried. It happens with various grains of powder and it is very frustrating to evaluate a group with three touching but those were shots 1,2, and 4 and two more real close but were shots 3 and 5. This is a brand new rifle from Shiloh so I'll assume the barrel is screwed on right.

[BFD]

Steve, I don't think your results are due to a crooked barrel joinery. With the last shot coming back to the first ones, I would suspect something else, possibly technique. Though that's a lot of jump for just how you are postured.

I know your frustration. I have had the same problem with a Borchardt schuetzen rifle. It was very repeatable with shots going high low, almost every other shot (using blackpowder and breech seating). I still don't know what it is, but when a friend was watching me, he gave me his powder measure of 4227 and asked me to try a few. They went into a nice tight group. No vertical. I''ve swapped out scopes, irons, check, double checked stock to metal fit, sights, barrel etc. Nothing was loose. Mysteries of shooting I guess. Not sure what to do with that rifle though. It's been 8=10 yrs since I shot it last.

[semtav]

If someone ever comes up with the real scientific reason for random pairs they will considered a genius. I see it often with a couple of my guns. I understand random dispersion, but not paired dispersion.

[BFD]

Yeah, the pairing - so sucks. There is a chance that it is an illusion of sorts, but sure doesn't feel likely.

[Rockridge]

I find it interesting that Woody's Shot 4 is about 2" higher than the main group, and shots 9 & 10 are about 2" lower than the main group.....
Is something moving within the sighting system?

Ed
Rockridge

[beltfed]

YUP,
Mysteries of double grouping. Have had that happen to me.
Example In service rifle shooting, especially prone or sitting rapid fire, sometimes I had double grouping.
Seems it has got to be position shifting or perhaps sight picture burn in can have an effect.
Same in slow fire. But there, you have more time to get settled properly in position, and
also can close eyes or look away to avoid burn in of sight pic. In any event, get the shot off quickly
once you have a good one.
beltfed/arnie