.50 Alaskan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I bought my Shiloh Sharps in 1979 as a barrelled action...serial number 3004. It had a 45 x 3 1/4" chamber, and for years I worked away at trying to come up with good black powder loads, but with only medium success. Subsequently, I had Harry McGowan make me a business barrel 28" long and chambered for 50 Alaskan. The twist is 1:36". So I started over working up loads that this barrel liked, and currently have been happy with a BACo 600 grain grease groove bullet over 90 gr. of Swiss 1 1/2 Fg. If I do my part, I can shoot, from a rest into close to MOA out to 300 meters.
Are there any subscribers here who have experience with this cartridge, and who can offer some other loads to try. I'd like to lighten the recoil a bit and tighten the groups a bit too.
This is my first post...been reading feverishly for several weeks now.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...just as a way of introduction:

[firefighter1990]

The 50 Alaskan is a good compromise between a 50-70 & a 50-90. There are said to even be a few rare original sharps in 50 cal with a 2" chambering. I shoot buffalo arms moulds almost exclusively now through both my 45 cal and 50 cal rifles. I just finalized a load in my Hartford 50-2.5" with the baco Jim511695c1 which is a creedmoor style bullet that comes out at 700 grains cast with 30:1. With either Swiss 1.5 or OE 1.5, it's proving to be a scary accurate shooter for me. So although my travels are with the 2.5" rather than the 2" Alaskan; I'll add my 2 cents and hopefully that will help you a tiny bit. First off is choose a bullet that fits your twist rate like a glove. It's just my opinion here but I think that your 600 grain pill is too heavy/long for the traditional 1:36 in which you are using. Try using a more traditional "government" bullet in the 425-515 grain area as these are ideally suited for such twist. The link below is where you can try a few to see how they shoot before coughing up some $$$ for a mold.

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/prod ... caliber=50

My second piece of advice is one that I personally believe is detrimental to all black powder reloading procedures and that is to anneal your brass. To answer your last question about reducing recoil; along with picking a lighter projectile- opt for a slower burning powder such as 1Fg and pick a brand that's not as potent as Swiss or OE. Good old fashioned goex 1Fg is good example. Keep us posted with your travels on the 50-2"

[Orville]

A pp bullet will reduce recoil also along with the Fg powder

[SchuetzenDave]

Caliber 0.51 Inches
Bullet Weight 600 Grains
Bullet Length 1.27 Inches
Barrel Twist 36 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1300 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 1.16

Caliber 0.51 Inches
Bullet Weight 540 Grains
Bullet Length 1.145 Inches
Barrel Twist 36 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1300 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 1.38


Gyroscopic stability (Sg) shouldn't be less than 1.4. You need a bullet shorter than 1.145" for the 36:1 twist to get enough spin on the bullet.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Those are very interesting ballistic stats.

The 600 gr. BACo 510600 is very stable in my rifle. At 1000 meters, the bullets strike perfectly nose on the vertical steel buffalo target. All that remains is a nickel sized flat disc.
I have tried some very short bullets - those designed for the Winchester 50-95 (1876 Win.) Accuracy non-existent.

[bruce m]

d.taylor,
recent forum posts around the traps are reporting successful use of longer than ideal bullets for twist.
shape as well as length can affect stability.
stability calculators are a guide only.
that said, a barely stable bullet can be supremely accurate, and this is what point blank benchresters look for.
they even use slow twists in order to use shorter bullets, due to nutation and precession minimization.
the same barely stable bullet can come unstuck bigtime in strong winds, wind shear, and at longer ranges.
for an absolute stability guarantee, you need stability of 1.5 AT THE TARGET.
this might require a factor of up to 2.0 at the muzzle.
if you commit to serious long range target shooting, taking the chance is not an option.
also, a faster spinning bullet will stay nose on better than a slow spinning one should there be a need to penetrate flesh and bone in a straight line.
hopefully you keep getting good results, but if not you know what to do.
get a faster twist or shorter bullets.
keep safe,
bruce.

[bruce m]

firefighter,
when you recommend against annealing brass, are you referring to correct annealing or incorrect annealing.
correct annealing usually improves accuracy as well as case life.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Yellowhouse]

firefighter,
when you recommend against annealing brass, are you referring to correct annealing or incorrect annealing.
correct annealing usually improves accuracy as well as case life.
keep safe,
bruce.

Hoping to learn something.....please elaborate on what you define as correct.

[firefighter1990]

Sorry for any confusion. I personally believe that a correctly annealed black powder cartridge will not only improve accuracy and extended case-life, but also make every shot consistent from one another; thus reducing vertical spread which is an indication of higher extreme spreads and standard deviation. Whether it's hard brass like starline or soft thin brass like Norma; I think annealing is a MUST!
There is a right temperature window to hit when annealing or else the brass will either be too soft or still too hard. High-power nitro smokeless powder operates at around 45000 cup of pressure depending on what cartridge. A bpcr will only generate about 14000 cup. All this is done inside brass hulls that are manufactured with the same metallurgy and drawing process whether it's smokeless or not.

[bruce m]

firefighter,
we are on the same page after all
yellowhouse,
what firefighter said.
anneal to the correct amount of spring in the neck for the cartridge pressure, such that there is obturation and springback at that pressure.
also, all the same.
as the sharps rifle co said, "consistency in all things" in their instructions for loading ammo for their creedmoor rifles.
keep safe,
bruce.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This is all good and encouraging conversation. I got really consistent results when I was using my blown out .348 Win. brass which has been annealed and loaded several times.
Now I have 300 Star Line cases with the correct headstamp, and I have not shot them into a target as yet...only clangers! I have much work to do.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I'm feeling a bit foolish, having received such great advice from knowledgeable folks. In conversation with my brother about my rifle, he said I had a 1:24" twist - not 1:36". So I checked it again, and he is right!! I must have been using too loose a jag/patch combo when measuring the first time.
So, this explains why the BACo 600 grain bullet is stable out to 1000 meters.
I've been advised that my 500 gr. paper patched mould and sizing die are on their way from BACo. I'm looking forward to trying something new, and looking forward to improved accuracy and reduced recoil. So, again,if you have advice about loading and shooting pp 500 gr. in .50 cal, I'm all ears.

[SchuetzenDave]

for a 24:1 twist:

Caliber 0.51 Inches
Bullet Weight 600 Grains
Bullet Length 1.27 Inches
Barrel Twist 24 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1300 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 2.60

Caliber 0.51 Inches
Bullet Weight 540 Grains
Bullet Length 1.145 Inches
Barrel Twist 24 Inches/turn
muzzle velocity 1300 fps
Temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit (59 is standard)
Pressure 29.92 inches of mercury (29.92 is standard)

Sg = 3.09


So even a 600 grain bullet is being overspun. Could go a bit longer bullet for the 24:1 twist.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Wow, your statistics are so close to what I have learned from my own rifle and loads. About being 'overspun', I find my accuracy or at least consistency is better at 300 m that in is at 100 and 200 m. With my 28" bbl., my velocity with the 600 gr. BACo bullet and 90 gr. 1 1/2 Fg Swiss is 1265 fps. Extreme velocity spread is only 12 fps.