Bullet Seating/Crimping

[Crotchety Ole Bart]

Got my new Shiloh 45/70 and spent the afternoon doing the preliminary work on loading cartridges. From my high power rifle days I have a desire to seat the bullet just back from the rifling. With the 45/70 I am using an 1881 500 grain bullet mould from Seaco and when seated as stated the topmost greese grove is exposed and the case stops on the band between the top and next greese grove (the bullet has three greese groves). So this raises several questions.

First, is it desirable to reduce the jump to the lands with cast bullets and blackpowder cartridges as it is in high power shooting?

How important is crimping? Will crimping this far back on the bullet have harmful effects. Would it be better to crimp in a greese grove? The case now ends on the band between the forward most two greese grooves.

I am a little concerned that the topmost greese grove is exposed as the lube might attract dust but that can be managed. Or would it be better to acquire a mould that only has two greese groves and where the crimping band is lower down on the bullet.

Is the distance a bullet seats in a case an important criteria? The bullet is 1.2 inches long and only 0.4 inches seats in the case when it is up against the rifling.

And finally, am I going about this in proper fashion? Is there something I should focus on more than bullet seating depth?

[MikeT]

Ole Bart,
Please do not feel that there is only ONE perfect way to get to BP heaven. I personally would try crimping only as a last resort. Why? because it just introduces another process that adds another possible problem area. Neck tension is all you should need and even having said that, unless that rifle shoots X's by itself, I would also try no neck tension. Some rifles will shoot good with about any method, others will only shoot well with a specific method. My rifles like the bullet to be engraved into the rifling to shoot well and with neck tension. If you seat back from the rifling then some neck tension will be required to hold the bullet in position on the over powder wad. All the experimenting makes for many good excuses to go to the range. And that is what I like the most about this sport.
Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Evening Bart,

Seating the bullet out to just short of the lands is not a bad place to start this allows easy chambering and for fouling build up. I would not crimp your BP loads, not with the crimp in your seating die at least. Some folks shoot loaded ammo with all the grease groves covered and it just works fine. I prefer my ammo seated out some as I dont plan on draging it around in the dirt before I stick it into my chamber. However accidents do and will happen! My best loads are often .020 to .025 short of the rifling or just off the lands.

Good Quality inline seating dies are nice way to go and will go along ways toward good quality ammo.


The bullet you picked is a good one for the 45-70 and it has shot in all the 45-70s I have been exposed too. Saeco's version is one of the better ones in my Opinion. Dont worry about how much of it is or is not in the case. Again let your rifle TELL YOU what it likes and does not like.

Play with seating depth and of course depending on your powder Compression too. Primers are also a major concern. Even Different brass will cause you some headaches if your not aware of this.

Had a shooter a few years back show up at my match, were trying to get him on target at 800 yards. We get alow just under the target hit so I brought him up 3 points and then he shoot 30 feet short of the target. After the 3rd or 4th shot I stopped spotting and walked over and looked at his ammo. He would shoot a Winchester case then a remington case, then 2 or so winchesters then a remington. I asked him his load 69 grs of Elephant he said, just like you use! Well the 2 differnt kinds of brass, one was yielding about .250 compression and the other was about None at all.

This poor guy had shot over 50 rounds before asking for my help and was a bit dismayed at his results. We sorted his ammo and got some zeros for each type at varrious ranges and more or less salvaged the day. He did not have a clue to the amount of varriance he was inducing with each shot. he was very new to the game.

To him 45-70 brass was just that 45-70 brass.


Kenny Wasserburger

[Ken Hartlein]

I agree with the other guys, I don't crimp at all, I fire form and thumb seat my bullets back about .010 from the rifling. Paul Matthews just had an article in the "News" that said the same thing only much better.