Trends in BPCR Long Range Shooting

[Kenny Wasserburger]

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The Original real deal. Paper somehow looses the Spirit of this match.


Kenny Wasserburger

See you next year.

[steveu834]

I think I can hit that with my Trapdoor!!! I will have to try to get up to your match.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

You’re always welcome Steve.

Kenny W

[JonnyV]

What are the dates of the match? Will we finish up on Sunday like this year?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Labor Day Weekend as always.

The Palma would probably be Sunday. Or we do 4 days and mile on Sunday.

Still working that out.

Kenny

[Kenny Wasserburger]

One thing I have ment to post on in Trends.

Our ole buddy JonnyV was using a scope in the mile match. Admittedly due to 50 MOA of windage requirements is probably how it worked for him as his scope was pointing off the left side of the barrel which definitely helped. Still none the less it’s the first time a scope has won the Wasserburger mile Match. Impressive no mater how you look at it.

Kenny Wasserburger

Stay tuned for next year.

[JonnyV]

Thanks Kenny. The match was a lot of fun and I’ll admit that having Jimbo off to the left behind me giving wind calls made things a lot easier. Definitely be back in ‘25!

In the meantime, everything about my shooting skills needs improvement…

[Kenny Wasserburger]

What BPCR cartridges are the most popular in Long Range? What’s the latest trend?
Among the winners.
Currently I would say the 45-100 and the 45-90. Based entirely on the 3 major Longrange matches I attended this year. My own experiences this year were with a very solid performance at Alliance Neb, 2nd overall in the Longrange and won the Scope Aggregate. Using my 45-110 with PP for the long range and my 40-70 for the Buffalo match. My Creedmoor Match 2nd overall with my new 1877 Shiloh in 45-100 with an original Paul Jones money bullet M3. I was right behind Multiple world and national champion Dave Gullo. First time I have shot a grease groove bullet in Longrange competition in some time. Plus I took 2nd at the mile Match with my 25# Dora 45-110 with Paper Patch. If you have the brass a 110 is still competitive.
I use 14.5-1 alloy taking 16-1 from John Walters using 95/5 Tin-antimony to drop it down to 14.5-1.
I continue to refer back to Edwin Perry’s book published in 1880.
Let’s hear your opinions, reasons behind why.

Kenny Wasserburger

[Don McDowell]

I’m of the mind that 16-1 alloy works well for long range accuracy.
Cartridges in 44-77,44-90 ss,45-90 and 45-110 have all shown their merit. I also believe a 45-70 can work and work well . The 40-90 bn I do believe could work rather well in a 16 lb or heavier gun ,but the recoil from 12 lb gun is punishing over a days match.
Matching the bullet length to twist and velocity is extremely critical..Overspinning a bullet at our velocity will serve better than underspinning.
I do think paper patch is fully capable of running with the best of grease groove, but grease groove is usually quicker and easier to find Thee load, and a bit less labor intensive especially in fouling control
Beyond that it’s a matter of lots of trigger time in varying conditions and learning to decipher quickly whether the flags, or the mirage are telling the truth,sometimes they both do sometimes they both lie like a dog.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

The 40-90 SBN, has its own set of issues of late, brass available, plus in my playing with one, FG powder works the best. Without Express or Olde Eynsford available I find that the most problematic. A faster twist and a 16# Rifle would cure much of its limitations. As you mentioned. Too much powder equals a greater amount of fouling left behind in the tighter bore, hence a greater amount of fouling control is required. So far this is all speculation as not a single 40-90 SBN shooter has placed in any major match to date.

Looking at the winner’s circle this year’s long range matches I have attended, predominantly 45’s rule, 45-70 I believe won Alliance. Second was a 1874 in 45-110 with PP, 3rd was a 45-100 1877.

My match: won by a Borchardt in 45-100, second a 45-100 in a 1877, 3rd a Borchardt in 45-100, 4th A 45-100 in a 1877. 5th a 45-90 in a roller. All shooting the money Bullet.

Mile match won by a 45-90 in a CPA, second a 1874 in 45-110 with PP, 3rd a 45-100 in a Borchardt.

Byers won by a 45-100 1874, a couple of Borchardts in 45-100, a 16# 1874 in 45-90, and A roller in 45-90.

Greasers tend to be at the top for bullet choice, less issues of fouling control and easier to get a load worked up, as you mentioned.

KW.

[Don McDowell]

For grease groove bullets forming 40-90 by running a 2.4 case into. 40-65 size die loading and fire forming works out fairly well albeit 2.6 cases do work better. I’ve gotten good accuracy from mine using Cartridge but there again the availability is left to what ever stocks one has in the powder magazine.
All told I’m of the mind that either a 44 or 45 based off the 2.4 case is likely as good as it gets for most shooters in long range.

[JonnyV]

Based on very limited experience...

The case lengths being mentioned "in the winner's circle" seem to be all 2.4" or longer. Most all the rifles mentioned are fast twist, 16" or faster.

One could make a (shaky) case that there are a few things that need to happen for a load to deliver at ranges beyond 800 yards.
1. The spin rate needs to be enough to avoid "spin decay" and subsequent instability. 16" twists seem to be optimized for this. 18" seems marginal.
2. Velocity needs to be high enough to assure that you are still transonic at 1000 yards.
3. Bullet design needs to assist with #2. PP may have an advantage here...
4. The load needs to be thoroughly tested and worked up. Not a guesswork situation.

[VectorMan]

Looking at the winner’s circle this year’s long range matches I have attended, predominantly 45’s rule, 45-70 I believe won Alliance. Second was a 1874 in 45-110 with PP, 3rd was a 45-100 1877.

My match: won by a Borchardt in 45-100, second a 45-100 in a 1877, 3rd a Borchardt in 45-100, 4th A 45-100 in a 1877. 5th a 45-90 in a roller. All shooting the money Bullet.

Mile match won by a 45-90 in a CPA, second a 1874 in 45-110 with PP, 3rd a 45-100 in a Borchardt.

Byers won by a 45-100 1874, a couple of Borchardts in 45-100, a 16# 1874 in 45-90, and A roller in 45-90.

Greasers tend to be at the top for bullet choice, less issues of fouling control and easier to get a load worked up, as you mentioned.

KW.

If there was an exact equipment list and load details for the above mentioned would be very helpful.
Thx.
KA.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Looking at the winner’s circle this year’s long range matches I have attended, predominantly 45’s rule, 45-70 I believe won Alliance. Second was a 1874 in 45-110 with PP, 3rd was a 45-100 1877.

My match: won by a Borchardt in 45-100, second a 45-100 in a 1877, 3rd a Borchardt in 45-100, 4th A 45-100 in a 1877. 5th a 45-90 in a roller. All shooting the money Bullet.

Mile match won by a 45-90 in a CPA, second a 1874 in 45-110 with PP, 3rd a 45-100 in a Borchardt.

Byers won by a 45-100 1874, a couple of Borchardts in 45-100, a 16# 1874 in 45-90, and A roller in 45-90.

Greasers tend to be at the top for bullet choice, less issues of fouling control and easier to get a load worked up, as you mentioned.

KW.

If there was an exact equipment list and load details for the above mentioned would be very helpful.
Thx.
KA.

Indeed,
Best I can tell you is the 45-100 Shooters were running from 89.5 grs of 1.5 Swiss to 93.5 grs. All were using the Money bullet, several were using original Paul Jones moulds the other 3 were using BACO moulds, at my match and at Byers. The one 45-90 shooter was using 79.5 grs and a Money Mould.

Not sure what was used at Alliance as no equipment lists are gathered. Except I was using my 45-110 with my Dual Diameter PP BACO bullet and 103.5 grs of 1.5 Olde Eynsford. 25# 1874 Shiloh, .060 veg fiber to compress then .062 HDPE followed by my 1/8th felt wad.

At my match I was using an original Paul Jones Money bullet and 93.5 grs of Swiss 1.5 and a .062 HDPE Wad, .180 compression Starline Brass, WLR primer. At my match and Byers used my new 1877 in 45-100. Byers used 92.5 grs and it didn’t do well past 800 yards. Reference to the Phase and do we need a 900 yard load thread.

At my match the Creedmoor segment 45-100’s dominated the match, 1-4 places 5th was the 45-90 mentioned. The top Shooter at Byers was a 1874 in 45-100 92.0 grs 1.5 Swiss with a Money bullet, there were 2 45-90’s in the top 5.

Kenny

[VectorMan]

Thanks Kenny. Thinking about trying to get my 45-100 Meacham 1885 dialed in this winter.

KA.