Here's a little tidbit of info that some....may not have thought about and it's in reference to shooting game vs shooting targets; targets being especially round type bullseyes such as used in Creedmoor or just whatever type paper target you're using with a bullseye! I just got back from Wyoming where my son and I went for an antelope hunt and even though I had good zeros at 25 yard increments....I did not kill an antelope! They don't call 'em 'Speed Goats' for nothing; they're SWUFT! So.....unless you've caught one that's gotten astraddle a fence and is hung up.....be prepared to SHOOT QUICK! But....here's the hard part: With these bullets we shoot....which have an arc about like onto a manhole cover.....you've got to KNOW THE RANGE pretty close or......you get what the little boy shot at aka ZILCH! Out to 200 yds. not much of a problem is presented as one can get pretty good target definition but Brother Antelope ain't all that large in comparison to a heavy chested mulie or an elk; antelope be small! So....out beyond 200 yds. you'd better have ya head and arse wired together and you'd better be quick about determining the distance to be shot and be able to put the dope on QUICKLY! My eyes are good; I have excellent long range vision and I can see the sights very well.....but if the 'lope' be out say around 416 yds......standing facing you....well....target definition can become a problem even with SUPERMAN'S VISION! Throw in the fact that the 'lope' be standing at about 260 degrees on the compass from you with the sun getting low.....target definition very quickly becomes a BIG PROBLEM! I was prone....laying I might add in a cactus patch....Brandon laying beside me giving me the range.....just a little side wind from 9 o/clock and I shot just slightly over! No prize for me!! We watched that lope for a good 6 minutes or so waiting for a broadside shot but that booger had us made and was pointing us like a bird dog!
So.....my suggestion is to anybody going on a 'lope' hunt......it would be good advice to get you some antelope targets put on cutout cardboard and to practice on those before hunting the darn things! I didn't do that but.......I will in the future!!
Sounds like good advice. I find that when a man changes game that he is hunting, like going from little south Texas whitetail to elk, he finds it difficult to judge range. Change in habitat is part of it, but the animals are so different in size too.
[quote="Scott Tschirhart"]Sounds like good advice. I find that when a man changes game that he is hunting, like going from little south Texas whitetail to elk, he finds it difficult to judge range. Change in habitat is part of it, but the animals are so different in size too.[/quote]
Scott
You're right about judging distance in wide open country. I've been knocking around up Wyoming way since 1960 and right off the bat I got some 'good learnin' bout gettin fooled on how far stuff was away! The visibility/air back then was much clearer than now with no smog; I could stand on the upper floor of my barracks at Ft. Carson and see slap to Denver! The other factor as I mentioned is TARGET DEFINITION! Throw in a surrounding area of grass that looks like it's been browned out for months for lack of rain and the colors of the antelope and it really becomes a BIG PROBLEM!!
Sharpsman--Maybe it was target definition, but more likely it was something else. You got your zeroes at something like 75 or 80 feet above sea level. Where you took the shot at the antelope was probably three or four thousand feet above sea level. You failed to take into account the fact that you don't need as much elevation for a given distance in Gillette as you do in this part of the country. Remember Quigley?? Shoot straight, rdnck.
Chairman, Phd
Caddo Lake Chapter
FES
Charter Member FBASS
[quote="rdnck"]Sharpsman--Maybe it was target definition, but more likely it was something else. You got your zeroes at something like 75 or 80 feet above sea level. Where you took the shot at the antelope was probably three or four thousand feet above sea level. You failed to take into account the fact that you don't need as much elevation for a given distance in Gillette as you do in this part of the country. Remember Quigley?? Shoot straight, rdnck.[/quote]
Rdnck
Nope.....I worried about the altitude change problem since before I left so Casper has a real nice range where I could shoot out to 900 yds. and I double-checked the zeros and they were RIGHT ON!! Casper is 5424' ASL and when I checked the elevations out to 500 yds. they were right on!! Too make a long story shorter.......I MISSED!!
Sharpsman relayed some excellent information re: antelope hunting, and I would like to add a few more tidbits to his tidbits.
Sharpsman term of "speed goats" is exactly correct, and they can and will use that speed to carry them almost to the next zip code if scared bad enough. The bigger goats (that is kind of a relative term) can run 50 mph for a mile and then run a couple of more miles at 30-40 mph just because it feels good.
Their vision isn't just good; it's incredible. Their amazing vision is their first line of defense, and is relied on much more than smell or hearing which are also good. This contrasts deer/elk where the nose is the acid test for everything that might be construed as imminent danger.
Another important factor to remember is the herding behavior that is common among goats during hunting seasons; as the weather gets colder the herds get bigger. This means that instead of 2 or 3 sets of eyes looking around, one is likely to have up to 30-40 or more sets of 10x eyeballs examining the real estate.
So, what does this mean for a goat hunter? First, don't waste your time trying to get close to a bunch of goats that are feeding or bedded on mostly level ground unless there is creek or coulee running through it. With multiple sets of 10x eyes your odds of getting within rifle range run somewhere between slim and none. You can spend your time more advantageously hunting in country that has some relief to it (e.g. rolling prairie).
Second, hunt goats like the coyotes do. Always move around in the low ground and use the hilltops to gain a vantage point for observation; never, never walk over the top of a hill, because 20-30 sets of 10x eyeballs somewhere will be watching.
Third, after you located a bunch of goats and have decided you think you can get close enough to kill one, then you need to get into position without letting any of them know that you are even in the same zip code. You can do this however you want, but often it entails a long round about stalk with the last 50 yards or more which must be covered as low to the ground as possible. Often this means that one may need to low crawl to the firing point; low crawl is exactly that. As Sharpsman also correctly points out that goats and cactus go together. One can minimize (not eliminate) the cactus factor during a low crawl with a fairly new set of Carhartt bib overalls, elbow pads and strap on knee pads like a lot of construction guys wear. You're still going to get at least some cactus needles, but at least you won't look like someone patterned a shotgun on you.
Also, as Sharpsman correctly points out, goats in very light colored backgrounds and marginal lighting conditions can be a real bearcat for target definition. About the only thing one can do is get closer or hope the light improves, if it is several hours before sundown. Sometimes the goats are just in a spot where they just aren't killable; a fact of life. Hunting around waterholes (morning and evening) in extremely dry country can be very effective, and is a good set-up for BPCR shooting. A patch of lush, irrigated alfalfa in very dry country can be a real goat magnet, too. Decoys can be effective, but set up the decoy well away from your firing position so you don't accidentally become part of the target area for another hunter.
Above all, be patient and don't get in a hurry. Just because one can see the goats laying on a hillside a mile away doesn't mean they are all that easy. Take your time and get into a good position for that 1 good shot even if it takes half a day. When in position, if the animal you want to shoot is laying down, and you would have a better shot if he stood up; just wait him out--you got nothing better to do anyway than wait for your perfect shot. Sometime between now and sundown he will get up, and you can take your shot then.
Regards
____________________
Whaddya mean I'm not dressed up; these Carhartt coveralls are almost brand new!
Iron you've paid your dues on the goat lessons. Goats can also smell real well,so being downwind of them is a real plus. Hot and dry,makes for the easiest antelope hunting, in my opinion. Find where they are watering, get a downwind location and wait. A little scouting in your area will tell you when they are going to water and how they are approaching it. Best plan from there. I did this 2 days ago with perfect success, only wish I had my 40 with me instead of the 6 I used. bobw
Yep...but that's ANOTHER PROBLEM that's thrown into the equation! That takes time! Shooting a BARN DOOR at 1000 yds. is easy; a 'lope' out there around 400 is a lot more difficult and THEN....you've got to set the elevation! So in my opinion....you find a place.....WHERE YOU CAN SHOOT WITHOUT LANDING IN JAIL......sit on your arse near a waterhole......and then you can take the time required to do stuff right!!
Sharpsman,
I spent 5 days archery hunting Antelope in Eastern Montana in August. I hunted a waterhole and had several shots at good bucks under 40 yards. I screwed up and missed so no one or equipment to blame, how do you say it? WHOOPS I did it again. I've hunted Antelope in this area many times in the past with my xp-100 7mmbr and Contender 7mm tcu and have had good success. The key is to use a spotting scope and locate them several miles away and plan a sneak or wait until they are in an area that will allow a stalk. I've been able to get within 60 yards doing this and the shot is the easy part. I can tell you cactus will fester in a week or two and will pop right out with just a little squeeze, just be patient it only hurts till it's healed. That kind of descibes any type of hunting be patient. But dang it's fun
Dan
I also found out long ago that Speed goats are also very curious critters. When I started hunting goats with my muzzleloader getting close enough for a sure killing shot became a challenge... And oldtimer whose legs gave him problems told me of this trick... When I spot a bunch of goats that have what I'm looking for, I ease up onto a high spot either downwind or cross wind to the herd. Then I take out my bandana and tuck a corner of it securely under the sweatband of my Stetson on the downwind side. There is never a lack of wind in Wyo. so the bandana flaps in the breeze. With me seated in my most comfortable shooting position I wait for the herd to take notice and then they have never failed to begin grazing closer... Then the tough part is to not move anything that isn't that flapping piece of cloth. Like the guys say 10X eyes see everything... But it has never failed for me.. I shot a real nice 15 inch buck at 60 yards, and several dry does for meat.... The does are the real curious ones.. Good luck
Tallperson
45-120 Longrange Express 34" barrel Shoots a long way and hits 'em real hard.
