Shiloh Rifle Forums

Woohooo! I hit something.

I showed up to the BPSR shoot at Sac Valley over the weekend. Arne Moos took great care of me and showed me the ropes. I hit a chicken standing up at 200m, a few turkeys, more pigs and 6 rams at 500m. I'm stoked - frankly, when I saw the distance to the chickens I was wondering whether I'd hit anything at all. Bottom line - score of 15, which sucks for folks who know what they are doing, I'm sure, but I got better on each set. I'm really happy that my home brew ammo seems to be in the "doesn't suck" category.

I made up some more - but shorter so I don't need the loader tool which is a slow, fiddly PIA. I'll make extra when I get some more brass since I had to ration my sighting-in shots this time. Also, I'm pretty sure that the guys were nice to me and I was not on the shot-clock, which helped my score somewhat.

By the way, Starline is accepting back orders for 45-70 brass now, in case anyone is interested. No indication of when it will be delivered, but I'm assuming that since they are taking orders, they have a production run scheduled shortly.

Congrats on your first match. 15 is a great starting score. My first was 11 with 6 of those being pigs. That was August of 1998. Not tired yet.

Woody

That's a great start. Not very many people hit that many rams on their first try!

Chris.

That's a good start. My 1st shoot was in April 1992 and I got 7 hits. It was well into my second year before I was shooting well into the teens. We didn't have near as much information available then as now. Scores in the low to mid 20's would win a match. Not so much anymore.

I plotted the sight settings for the various distances (200m, 300m, 385m and 500m) on a scatter chart and it was interesting that the 500m setting did not fit the same curve as the others - required less elevation than the curve would have predicted. 500m also required a very large left windage adjustment (8 minutes), whereas the adjustment for the other ranges was a minute or two. The wind was light - perhaps just 5 to 8 kts at ground level - quartering from the left rear. The implication is that the wind speed and direction was substantially more significant at the longer range than the shorter, which would happen if the wind was stronger, higher up.

I find it very hard to believe that the bullet experiences a substantial "push" from a 5kt airmass over just a second or so of flight. Do spinning bullets "weathercock" into the wind the way that a spiraled football nose drops as it follows its arc?

Finally, it was really cold and the oil in my front sight bubble level was soupy so the bubble was not moving very fast. Can you buy "cold weather levels", or is mine just old and need replacing, or is this normal and everyone just tolerates it (or knows to heat it up, or something). It looks like an MVA #113.

Doug, in calm conditions due to spin drift, I see about a minute of extra left on the scope from 200m to 500m.

At our local range which is 2276 feet above sea level, my 40-65 shooting 400gr Money bullets at 1300 fps takes 43 minutes from chickens to rams in dead calm wind. My 45-70's don't shoot as flat and need around 50 minutes to do the same. Not sure on the spin drift as I don't shoot 45-70 nearly as much.

Weird things at the rams can simply be conditions we don't see on the flags or in the mirage, or can be an unstable bullet. An unstable bullet will have more drag and thus more wind drift and drop. Plus reduced accuracy at range when the wind gets tricky.

Chris.

I had to do a conversion from knots to mph, but on my rifle, at our range, in those conditions I would expect 5-6 minutes of windage on the rams if it was full value.

A head/tail wind can make considerable difference in the elevation. So can conditions as the day progresses. In a hot day with a cool morning you could easily see a minute or two difference in elevation as the day progresses. You really notice that factor at long range.

Chris.

Hmmm - don't know why, but I assumed that the sight settings would be an exponential function so I had the trendline extrapolate using exponential mode. Maybe over-thinking it. Here is the same set of datapoints with a linear trendline. The orange dot is my 100yard setting from the local range on a different day. Same ammo.

For most silhouette rifles you are very close if you use the 15-15-20 rule. pigs = chickens +15, turkeys = pigs + 15, rams = turkeys + 20

Chris.

Remember too, most numbers change once you're out of transsonic flight.

OK, it's time to get serious about making some bullets. I have been shooting these from BACO -

"Hand cast lead bullets from the Lyman mold 457125 item number LYM2640125. This is Lyman's copy of the old 500 grain trapdoor bullet. .458" diameter 520 grains cast from 20-1 alloy and lubed with SPG lube."

Which seems to work OK for me. Obviously the first thing to do is get the mold and handles. That's the easy part.

I have some lead out of a boat - it's either pure or has some antimony in it (10% max). It's very soft, so my guess is that it's pure. I have about 150lbs of it, so I want to use it rather than buying more. Which means I need to test, alloy and test again for hardness. I want to hit the same as the bullets I'm using. I assume I need to buy some tin. Questions:
1. What's the best way to measure comparative hardness. I have some BACO bullets, so I don't need an absolute hardness number, I just need my mix to to be the same as the BACO bullets.
2. Is it as simple as dropping some lead and some tin into a cast iron pot on the outside stove burner and ladling the metal into the mold, or are there specific steps, magic incantations or something that needs to happen first?

Try here:

http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Part1.htm

http://www.longrangebpcr.com/Part2.htm

I found that my cast bullet consistency greatly improved when I started to ladle pour the bullets. I also drilled out the TCBS ladle spout to a "sloppy" 3/16" - 7/32" to give a faster and heavier pour to expel air in the mould. Also pour a generous sprue on the sprue plate and do not cut the sprue until it solidifies.

Doug,

If it appears very soft and has a dull gray color, try this test: cut off a sizable piece and throw it onto a concrete floor. If it hits with a dull thud, it's likely pure or almost pure lead. If it has a look at all shiny and rings when you throw it on the floor, it is likely alloyed with antimony and maybe a small amount of tin.

If it seems soft, make a sizable batch-say 50-75 lbs., with tin. 1 lb. of tin to 19 lb. of lead will make a 1/20 mix, 1 lb. of tin to 20 lb. of lead will be only slightly softer.

Either will work fine with the 457125.

Clarence

Melt the lead, skim all dross after fluxing it. Pour into an igot mold ( regular Lyman or Lee pr rcbs ingot molds. Keep them fairly uniform. That will help you weighing out your alloy batch.get a good scale that will weigh to hundredths of pounds or .1 grams. When allloying the melt it needs be as clean as possible. Tin ain't cheap 30 to 1 saves money on tin if it shoots good your ok if you have to harden it more then you have to, don't make the mistake of hardening more than you need. Big ole 457125 is rn and doesn't slump like needle dick designs..bobw

I've been thinking about shooting the chickens - that seems to be the best way to increase my score fastest. But holding the heavy rifle steady is not easy. The stance that I watched others use was compact with the left elbow braced against the body and a short grip just in front of the lever.

I prefer to have my left hand out on the forearm - it seems that I can stabilize the rifle better that way, but it's tiring because there's nothing to brace against. I've been doing 10 "lifts" of 10 seconds every day with the rifle and it's definitely been getting easier to hold it still. How do others prep for off-hand shooting and what stance is really the most effective for 200 yard offhand chickens? Do you attempt to hold steady, or manage a slow drop of the muzzle and fire when the sights transit the right spot?