Then place it back in its velvet lined case, and pick up my Sharps.If I should miss my gong due to the stupendouse hammer torque 
I shall not think twice about running over and clubbing it over with undo-dammage. 
True or False
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kamotz
- Posts: 641
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:28 pm
- Location: Rising Sun,MD
Hey Coydog, Yes the Ballard an HiWalls are fancy machines indeed.But then I could take a beautiful peice of walnut and a heavy target barrel and atach it to an old Harrington and Richards receiver and the same thing can be said. But thats not what were after,is it?If it is, we all might as well be shooting bolt actions.I like to concentrate on the historical aspects of BPCR,and all else takes a back seat to the '74,followed by perhaps the Rolling block. Some day I would like to shoot a Ballard,and I will make sure to hold my pinkey finger out as I would a delicate wine glass,so as not to damage it. Then place it back in its velvet lined case, and pick up my Sharps.If I should miss my gong due to the stupendouse hammer torque I shall not think twice about running over and clubbing it over with undo-dammage.
Then place it back in its velvet lined case, and pick up my Sharps.If I should miss my gong due to the stupendouse hammer torque I shall not think twice about running over and clubbing it over with undo-dammage. Once you shoot black, youll never go back
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
Ok, let me see if I have some things right.
Most people recommend the 45-70 for the first gun. I agree it's a no brainer.
Now as far as the 45-90, 45-100 and the 45-110 go. Many people seem to think that the 45-90 and the 45-100 give an equal performance to that of the 45-110 without the fouling problems. plus it uses less powder.
Other say, that the reason the 45-90/100 get equal performance is that they use duplex loads OR load a bigger powder charge in the cases effectively making them almost as large as the 45-110.
Can the 45-110 be loaded with duplex charges? If duplex charges were outlawed, (then only outlaws would use duplex charges! just kidding, I couldn't resist) would it force the other competitors to use a larger case length and powder charge to achieve the desired velocity?
If people are driving a similar bullet weight, a similar powder charge in a similar weighted rifle, with a similar velocity, there shouldn't be any real difference in the recoil, right? So the recoil issue should be moot.
Is consistant velocity a function of a consistant powder density? (compression) If so, if you didn't compress at all, would the velocities stay consistant with other catridges loaded the same way?
What's the difference in a 45-100 loaded with 106 gr of BP and a 45-110 loaded with 106 gr of BP? It seems that the answers about which case length is the best is almost irrelevant because the powder charges can all be varied, and in some cases overlapped with a case length above or below the one that is preferred. Am I way off base with this thought?
This was not meant to be critical of anybody's input, it was only meant as a thorough examination, though questioning, of the ideas and possible nuances express in this thread. (ie. Don't take my counter questions personally)
I look forward to your replies.
Texas Shooter
Most people recommend the 45-70 for the first gun. I agree it's a no brainer.
Now as far as the 45-90, 45-100 and the 45-110 go. Many people seem to think that the 45-90 and the 45-100 give an equal performance to that of the 45-110 without the fouling problems. plus it uses less powder.
Other say, that the reason the 45-90/100 get equal performance is that they use duplex loads OR load a bigger powder charge in the cases effectively making them almost as large as the 45-110.
Can the 45-110 be loaded with duplex charges? If duplex charges were outlawed, (then only outlaws would use duplex charges! just kidding, I couldn't resist) would it force the other competitors to use a larger case length and powder charge to achieve the desired velocity?
If people are driving a similar bullet weight, a similar powder charge in a similar weighted rifle, with a similar velocity, there shouldn't be any real difference in the recoil, right? So the recoil issue should be moot.
Is consistant velocity a function of a consistant powder density? (compression) If so, if you didn't compress at all, would the velocities stay consistant with other catridges loaded the same way?
What's the difference in a 45-100 loaded with 106 gr of BP and a 45-110 loaded with 106 gr of BP? It seems that the answers about which case length is the best is almost irrelevant because the powder charges can all be varied, and in some cases overlapped with a case length above or below the one that is preferred. Am I way off base with this thought?
This was not meant to be critical of anybody's input, it was only meant as a thorough examination, though questioning, of the ideas and possible nuances express in this thread. (ie. Don't take my counter questions personally)
I look forward to your replies.
Texas Shooter
"Aim Small, Miss Small!"
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
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The Montanan
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:13 pm
- Location: Kalispell, Mt
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The Montanan
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:13 pm
- Location: Kalispell, Mt
-
Vbull
Texas Shooter,
<Many people seem to think that the 45-90 and the 45-100 give an equal performance to that of the 45-110 without the fouling problems. plus it uses less powder.>
It depends on the powder used, but in general, TRUE
<Other say, that the reason the 45-90/100 get equal performance is that they use duplex loads>
In some cases TRUE, but in my experience the duplex charge is there to help manage the fouling, the additional velocity is a bonus. Also, once you have reached 85-90 gr of black, there is a point of diminishing returns. The additional powder charge does not gain you much velocity at the expense of a hotter barrel and higher likelihood of fouling. Another advantage to the (relatively shorter) .45-90/100 is with the use of FG granulation, lower velocity, lower recoil loads can be used at mid-range distances and for all intents and purposes be a .45-70. The longer 110 could be set up to perform the same way, but probably take a bit more tinkering.
<Can the 45-110 be loaded with duplex charges?>
Yes, but why?
<Is consistent velocity a function of a consistent powder density? (compression) If so, if you didn't compress at all, would the velocities stay consistent with other cartridges loaded the same way?>
This depends more on the brand of powder. Goex for instance needs to be compressed a good deal to get the best performance. Swiss on the other hand tends to use less to get it to perform with a few exceptions. When I used Elephant, it also worked well with lesser amounts of compression.
<What's the difference in a 45-100 loaded with 106 gr of BP and a 45-110 loaded with 106 gr of BP?>
Probably no more then a bit more compression or seating the bullet out further. Performance at the range or match is more a function of the shooter ability then it is what tool he’s using.Those long cases do look cool though, but won’t win you a mach on their coolness factor alone. But we all shoot these rifles for a whole lot of different reasons. Some like to compete at everything they do, others just like the camaraderie or ambiance. Others like myself just enjoy shooting these wonderful old rifles at impossible distances. I hope that answers some of your questions. Good luck, Frank Monikowski
<Many people seem to think that the 45-90 and the 45-100 give an equal performance to that of the 45-110 without the fouling problems. plus it uses less powder.>
It depends on the powder used, but in general, TRUE
<Other say, that the reason the 45-90/100 get equal performance is that they use duplex loads>
In some cases TRUE, but in my experience the duplex charge is there to help manage the fouling, the additional velocity is a bonus. Also, once you have reached 85-90 gr of black, there is a point of diminishing returns. The additional powder charge does not gain you much velocity at the expense of a hotter barrel and higher likelihood of fouling. Another advantage to the (relatively shorter) .45-90/100 is with the use of FG granulation, lower velocity, lower recoil loads can be used at mid-range distances and for all intents and purposes be a .45-70. The longer 110 could be set up to perform the same way, but probably take a bit more tinkering.
<Can the 45-110 be loaded with duplex charges?>
Yes, but why?
<Is consistent velocity a function of a consistent powder density? (compression) If so, if you didn't compress at all, would the velocities stay consistent with other cartridges loaded the same way?>
This depends more on the brand of powder. Goex for instance needs to be compressed a good deal to get the best performance. Swiss on the other hand tends to use less to get it to perform with a few exceptions. When I used Elephant, it also worked well with lesser amounts of compression.
<What's the difference in a 45-100 loaded with 106 gr of BP and a 45-110 loaded with 106 gr of BP?>
Probably no more then a bit more compression or seating the bullet out further. Performance at the range or match is more a function of the shooter ability then it is what tool he’s using.Those long cases do look cool though, but won’t win you a mach on their coolness factor alone. But we all shoot these rifles for a whole lot of different reasons. Some like to compete at everything they do, others just like the camaraderie or ambiance. Others like myself just enjoy shooting these wonderful old rifles at impossible distances. I hope that answers some of your questions. Good luck, Frank Monikowski
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
Frank:
Thanks for the input. You mentioned:
Another advantage to the (relatively shorter) .45-90/100 is with the use of FG granulation, lower velocity, lower recoil loads can be used at mid-range distances and for all intents and purposes be a .45-70.
I was not clear on your reference to FG granulation, could you please elaberate. I was my understanding that the 45-110 works best with FG granulation.
I figured that "everyone" will already have a 45-70 as their starter BP rifle. After that, what cartridge would be the best to "Round out" the other applications.
You reference the powder capacity of the brass once it reached 80-90 grains, there is a point of diminishing returns. Hypothetically, the case holds powder and a projectile, would there be any reason not to use the excess case length for a longer heavier bullet while maintaining the same overall cartridge length? Maybe go up to 600 - 800 grain bullet.
Would this possible give someone an advantage in heavy wind?
What was the reason the 45-110 had the favor of long range shooters back in the 1870's?
Anyone else want to jump in on my last 3 post?
Thanks,
Texas Shooter
Thanks for the input. You mentioned:
Another advantage to the (relatively shorter) .45-90/100 is with the use of FG granulation, lower velocity, lower recoil loads can be used at mid-range distances and for all intents and purposes be a .45-70.
I was not clear on your reference to FG granulation, could you please elaberate. I was my understanding that the 45-110 works best with FG granulation.
I figured that "everyone" will already have a 45-70 as their starter BP rifle. After that, what cartridge would be the best to "Round out" the other applications.
You reference the powder capacity of the brass once it reached 80-90 grains, there is a point of diminishing returns. Hypothetically, the case holds powder and a projectile, would there be any reason not to use the excess case length for a longer heavier bullet while maintaining the same overall cartridge length? Maybe go up to 600 - 800 grain bullet.
Would this possible give someone an advantage in heavy wind?
What was the reason the 45-110 had the favor of long range shooters back in the 1870's?
Anyone else want to jump in on my last 3 post?
Thanks,
Texas Shooter
"Aim Small, Miss Small!"
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Kenny Wasserburger
- Posts: 4740
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
- Location: Gillette, Wyoming
As Kelley mentioned,
I have had alot of fouling issues in my 45-110 in the past. And I have never hid the fact as Kelley mentioned my own words!
I kept reading the Sharps information, and anything I could find on the 45-110 and kept coming back to Fg powder. Most of my 45-110 shooting up until just 3 years ago was with FFg Loadings. I finally decided the Sharps factory knew more or better then me. I used Fg Elephant for several years with mixed results similar to my FFg Elephant loads. Elephant was slower in velocity and the FFg worked well, better then the FG loads. In fact Elephant just burns dirty compared to Swiss or Goex and I know I shot Elephant competivly for 7 years.
Both powders gave alot of fouling but it was manageable with blow tubing, however when temps got over 80 and the humidity got below 30% I had troubles. lube was also part of the problem.
Last year at the World Creedmoor Assoc matches I had brought a new Fg load for my 45-110 to shoot and a new load of FFg Goex for my 45-70 for the midrange part of the matches.
Chrono Data was surprising to say the least! My 45-70 load gave 1260 fps at the muzzle with the FF Goex load for the first shot and avg around 1240 fps with a 520 gr Postell bullet.
My new Fg load of 114 grs of Fg Elephant gave a very slow 1214 fps avg speed and tons of fouling. The new Elephant I had bought was slower then my older lots that had gave a 1250 fps MV with 110 grs of powder. Right then and there based on the Data I got a case of Fg Goex. I went back to the same weight of load that had originaly worked well in my 45-110 with older lots of Fg Elephant.
108.5 grs, This amount of Goex took up a good deal more volume in the 45-110 case then the Elephant load, and the end result was an amount of .380 compression to get the bullet to the depth I need to seat it and chamber the round.
While we all know of BP experts posting that after a certain ammount of powder we get to a point of demished returns, This Is a point I agree with totaly seen it in the 45-110 with Elephant on many occasions.
However in this load that I am currently using with some very good results this past year several things have come apparent!
It burns Very CLEAN! I no longer have excessive fouling, as a mater of fact this load cleans up easier then my 45-70 load does, it all most looks like a very good duplex load or smokless. 2-3 patches and its clean! As to the point of deminished returns? have not got to it with Fg Goex in my 45-110. 108.5 grs yields a MV of 1340 fps in a 34 inch barrel on my 45-110 Shiloh Sharps. ES of 11 Fps and SD of 3 fps. I was just dumbfounded when I looked down my barrel after my first outing with the Fg Goex load. I thought it a fluke. It was not!
I think its a combo of the components that makes this all happen, Lube, Powder, and Correct bullet.
For what ever reasons the Fg Goex load is with the correct amount of compression a very clean shooting load. I dont know why it works All I can say is it does. With evey match that I had the chance too attend this year I compared my load and the fouling with other loads folks were using. I looked down dirty barrels and showed folks mine.
Even folks shooting swiss, including my long range shooting pardner were impressed, I must admit that Jimbo's Fg load with swiss looked very similar to my barrel. However he had leading issues, Due to bad bullets.
He used my practice ammo the second day to post a decent score and it was within 1 or 2 points of his Swiss zero. His first try in his Ballard 5 1/2 45-110 was a 92-1x at 800 yards. With ammo made for my rifle!
When the Rdnck got his first 45-110 he called asked for some load help I gave him the load data and he did some small changes for his chamber and rifle set up and the brass, He seats his bullets deeper so he used 2.5 grs less powder. A day or so later he called me with reports of the disbelief he was having over the state of the fouling in the barrel after many shots with out cleaning. And wanted to know if mine shoot this clean also. I told him yes it did much to my own disbelief. I still have a hard time and am astounded by the clean burning of the load. He stated that he felt if burned cleaner then his 45-70 load was. Again I had to agree with him as that was the assesment I had of my loads also. In his Shiloh Bull barreled rifle again the same thing, very very light fouling and excellent accuracy.
I wish I could take all the credit and say wow I got the 45-110 to finaly shoot like the old timers made em shoot. But its all in Sharps catalog literture. Just took me 8 years to figure it out! And of course it took the correct powder lube and bullet combo. Current lots of Fg Goex work as if it was the perfect powder for a 45-110.
Very little is known about the end of the first Creedmoor era, just bits here and there. But we are sure one of the best shooters of the time was using it and it was in a Borchardt Long range rifle.
Heavier bullets over 550 grs I think are just more recoil in any 45 caliber rifle. Wind drift more or less depending on bullet wt and shape are sort of subjective, in my opinion. IF you know what the wind conditions are going to do to your bullet in a given condition and you know how to adjust for it then it matters little if your bullet drifts 10 inches more then the other guys. He might not be as tuned into the wind as you are.
I have seen folk underestimate the wind badly, saw a really good example at Butte when the Mirage no longer gave a good wind speed indication. Mirage looks the same at 10 mph as it does at 15! running hard! One has to use other things and pick up on the increase in speed. Folks that did not get it missed alot of rams.
As gunny pointed out! more trigger time and knowing your load will in the end do more for your match scores then any Caliber or case length combo will.
Give Frank M. Dave Hicks, Kelley O. Dave Gullo and a host of other shooters a good load and rifle and they have a good idea how it performs in the wind and they will beat you even if your bullet has 25 inches lest drift then their load does.
I like the 45-110 for personal and Historical reasons. My choice. Its Reputation on the buffal ranges in legendary.
Of interest is the 45-100 and 45-90. As the old timers shot both rounds in LR with NEVER Less then 100 grs of powder.! the 2.6 case had a short life and the 2.4 took over and it was always loaded with 100 grs of powder.
Most of todays Long range shooters are using 45-90's and a few 45-100's most will agree that around 1300 fps is the MV they think works best some are pushing 1400! I think thats too much and recoil does become an issue to me at least. I have one FFg load that does 1403 out of clean barrel and it just about hammers me to death. You will be hard pressed to get 1340 fps with straight BP in a 45-90 with out going to FFFg Swiss or duplexing. I might be wrong on that? But the Majority of 45-90 shooters do duplex when they can. A 2 time National LR Champ is playing with FFFg swiss in his 45-90.
I am no sainted BP only man, I fell from grace last year at Raton to try Duplex to in a attempt to clean up my Fg Elephant loads and get some of that lost MV back. It worked, 1369 fps with a 520 Postell and Recoil more then my 540 gr Jones and Fg goex at 1340 fps. The recoil pulse is just different is all I can say. And I am back to BP Fg Goex only as a long Range loading.
I think I just got lucky and happend onto a combo that makes the 45-110 shoot up to its potential is all. The buffalo hunters knew it and it would appear that some Creedmoor shooters also did.
In all this thread has been an interesting one.
Kenny Wasserburger
I have had alot of fouling issues in my 45-110 in the past. And I have never hid the fact as Kelley mentioned my own words!
I kept reading the Sharps information, and anything I could find on the 45-110 and kept coming back to Fg powder. Most of my 45-110 shooting up until just 3 years ago was with FFg Loadings. I finally decided the Sharps factory knew more or better then me. I used Fg Elephant for several years with mixed results similar to my FFg Elephant loads. Elephant was slower in velocity and the FFg worked well, better then the FG loads. In fact Elephant just burns dirty compared to Swiss or Goex and I know I shot Elephant competivly for 7 years.
Both powders gave alot of fouling but it was manageable with blow tubing, however when temps got over 80 and the humidity got below 30% I had troubles. lube was also part of the problem.
Last year at the World Creedmoor Assoc matches I had brought a new Fg load for my 45-110 to shoot and a new load of FFg Goex for my 45-70 for the midrange part of the matches.
Chrono Data was surprising to say the least! My 45-70 load gave 1260 fps at the muzzle with the FF Goex load for the first shot and avg around 1240 fps with a 520 gr Postell bullet.
My new Fg load of 114 grs of Fg Elephant gave a very slow 1214 fps avg speed and tons of fouling. The new Elephant I had bought was slower then my older lots that had gave a 1250 fps MV with 110 grs of powder. Right then and there based on the Data I got a case of Fg Goex. I went back to the same weight of load that had originaly worked well in my 45-110 with older lots of Fg Elephant.
108.5 grs, This amount of Goex took up a good deal more volume in the 45-110 case then the Elephant load, and the end result was an amount of .380 compression to get the bullet to the depth I need to seat it and chamber the round.
While we all know of BP experts posting that after a certain ammount of powder we get to a point of demished returns, This Is a point I agree with totaly seen it in the 45-110 with Elephant on many occasions.
However in this load that I am currently using with some very good results this past year several things have come apparent!
It burns Very CLEAN! I no longer have excessive fouling, as a mater of fact this load cleans up easier then my 45-70 load does, it all most looks like a very good duplex load or smokless. 2-3 patches and its clean! As to the point of deminished returns? have not got to it with Fg Goex in my 45-110. 108.5 grs yields a MV of 1340 fps in a 34 inch barrel on my 45-110 Shiloh Sharps. ES of 11 Fps and SD of 3 fps. I was just dumbfounded when I looked down my barrel after my first outing with the Fg Goex load. I thought it a fluke. It was not!
I think its a combo of the components that makes this all happen, Lube, Powder, and Correct bullet.
For what ever reasons the Fg Goex load is with the correct amount of compression a very clean shooting load. I dont know why it works All I can say is it does. With evey match that I had the chance too attend this year I compared my load and the fouling with other loads folks were using. I looked down dirty barrels and showed folks mine.
Even folks shooting swiss, including my long range shooting pardner were impressed, I must admit that Jimbo's Fg load with swiss looked very similar to my barrel. However he had leading issues, Due to bad bullets.
He used my practice ammo the second day to post a decent score and it was within 1 or 2 points of his Swiss zero. His first try in his Ballard 5 1/2 45-110 was a 92-1x at 800 yards. With ammo made for my rifle!
When the Rdnck got his first 45-110 he called asked for some load help I gave him the load data and he did some small changes for his chamber and rifle set up and the brass, He seats his bullets deeper so he used 2.5 grs less powder. A day or so later he called me with reports of the disbelief he was having over the state of the fouling in the barrel after many shots with out cleaning. And wanted to know if mine shoot this clean also. I told him yes it did much to my own disbelief. I still have a hard time and am astounded by the clean burning of the load. He stated that he felt if burned cleaner then his 45-70 load was. Again I had to agree with him as that was the assesment I had of my loads also. In his Shiloh Bull barreled rifle again the same thing, very very light fouling and excellent accuracy.
I wish I could take all the credit and say wow I got the 45-110 to finaly shoot like the old timers made em shoot. But its all in Sharps catalog literture. Just took me 8 years to figure it out! And of course it took the correct powder lube and bullet combo. Current lots of Fg Goex work as if it was the perfect powder for a 45-110.
Very little is known about the end of the first Creedmoor era, just bits here and there. But we are sure one of the best shooters of the time was using it and it was in a Borchardt Long range rifle.
Heavier bullets over 550 grs I think are just more recoil in any 45 caliber rifle. Wind drift more or less depending on bullet wt and shape are sort of subjective, in my opinion. IF you know what the wind conditions are going to do to your bullet in a given condition and you know how to adjust for it then it matters little if your bullet drifts 10 inches more then the other guys. He might not be as tuned into the wind as you are.
I have seen folk underestimate the wind badly, saw a really good example at Butte when the Mirage no longer gave a good wind speed indication. Mirage looks the same at 10 mph as it does at 15! running hard! One has to use other things and pick up on the increase in speed. Folks that did not get it missed alot of rams.
As gunny pointed out! more trigger time and knowing your load will in the end do more for your match scores then any Caliber or case length combo will.
Give Frank M. Dave Hicks, Kelley O. Dave Gullo and a host of other shooters a good load and rifle and they have a good idea how it performs in the wind and they will beat you even if your bullet has 25 inches lest drift then their load does.
I like the 45-110 for personal and Historical reasons. My choice. Its Reputation on the buffal ranges in legendary.
Of interest is the 45-100 and 45-90. As the old timers shot both rounds in LR with NEVER Less then 100 grs of powder.! the 2.6 case had a short life and the 2.4 took over and it was always loaded with 100 grs of powder.
Most of todays Long range shooters are using 45-90's and a few 45-100's most will agree that around 1300 fps is the MV they think works best some are pushing 1400! I think thats too much and recoil does become an issue to me at least. I have one FFg load that does 1403 out of clean barrel and it just about hammers me to death. You will be hard pressed to get 1340 fps with straight BP in a 45-90 with out going to FFFg Swiss or duplexing. I might be wrong on that? But the Majority of 45-90 shooters do duplex when they can. A 2 time National LR Champ is playing with FFFg swiss in his 45-90.
I am no sainted BP only man, I fell from grace last year at Raton to try Duplex to in a attempt to clean up my Fg Elephant loads and get some of that lost MV back. It worked, 1369 fps with a 520 Postell and Recoil more then my 540 gr Jones and Fg goex at 1340 fps. The recoil pulse is just different is all I can say. And I am back to BP Fg Goex only as a long Range loading.
I think I just got lucky and happend onto a combo that makes the 45-110 shoot up to its potential is all. The buffalo hunters knew it and it would appear that some Creedmoor shooters also did.
In all this thread has been an interesting one.
Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
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Kelley O.Roos
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:02 am
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MLV
- Posts: 3710
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:21 pm
- Location: Livingston, MT
- Contact:
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Kenny Wasserburger
- Posts: 4740
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
- Location: Gillette, Wyoming
Mike,
You are right of course, I have seen 45-2 7/8ths cases loaded with just 90 grs of powder too and a 500 gr PP bullet. And then we have seen several boxes now of 45-2 7/8ths brass loaded with 120 grs of powder and a 500 gr pp bullet too?
Makes you wonder?
I am just glad that I have finaly got the legend to shoot like they said it could. That old 2-7/8ths is pretty awsome to shoot.
Kenny Wasserburger
You are right of course, I have seen 45-2 7/8ths cases loaded with just 90 grs of powder too and a 500 gr PP bullet. And then we have seen several boxes now of 45-2 7/8ths brass loaded with 120 grs of powder and a 500 gr pp bullet too?
Makes you wonder?
I am just glad that I have finaly got the legend to shoot like they said it could. That old 2-7/8ths is pretty awsome to shoot.
Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
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Harlan Sage
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:07 am
- Location: Sidney, NE
If you want to shoot all the games 45-90 is my choice. Anything bigger is a waste of powder, unless you want alittle more cool factor. If you want to get under Coydog's skin get a Hepburn in any caliber and send him pictures.
Just Shoot...EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
Kenny:
Great post. I'm glad someone has figured out how to make one shoot.
You mention that the recoil is no problem or something like that. Do you suppose the FG powder burns slower giving a "push recoil" instead of a "sharp recoil". Reading the post it sounds like the maximum velocity is not really faster, but how it get to the velocity may be the difference. because the powder IS being burned.
45-110 108.5 gr Goex FG
More powder, slower longer burn, more complete burn = same velocity, Perceived softer recoil, less fouling
45-90 100 gr FFG
Less powder, faster burn, less complete burn? = same velocity, sharper recoil, more or the same fouling as the 110
Similar question:
Do you get more velocity out of a 34 inch barrel (feet per inch after 30 inches) with FG, than you do with FFG?
Another similar question:
Is the FFG completely burned up in say..... 26 inches of barrel, where the FG takes 32 inches to complete it's burning?
Still another:
Is there more fouling in a 34 inch barrel with FG or FFG?
There should be a way of calculating combustion effeciency in a given barrel with a given powder (fuel). Thereby making cartridge developement an easier chore, rather than by trial and error. These types of experiments are done all the type in the automobile industry.
Can you get burn rates and other characteristics of GOEX in the different grades? I thought I would contact an Automotive engineer freind of mine and ask the question of calculating combustion efficency. Given the "chamber" is a cylinder instead of some complex shape, it might not be to hard to do.
Does this sound like a good idea or rediculous?
A really intrigued:
Texas Shooter
Great post. I'm glad someone has figured out how to make one shoot.
You mention that the recoil is no problem or something like that. Do you suppose the FG powder burns slower giving a "push recoil" instead of a "sharp recoil". Reading the post it sounds like the maximum velocity is not really faster, but how it get to the velocity may be the difference. because the powder IS being burned.
45-110 108.5 gr Goex FG
More powder, slower longer burn, more complete burn = same velocity, Perceived softer recoil, less fouling
45-90 100 gr FFG
Less powder, faster burn, less complete burn? = same velocity, sharper recoil, more or the same fouling as the 110
Similar question:
Do you get more velocity out of a 34 inch barrel (feet per inch after 30 inches) with FG, than you do with FFG?
Another similar question:
Is the FFG completely burned up in say..... 26 inches of barrel, where the FG takes 32 inches to complete it's burning?
Still another:
Is there more fouling in a 34 inch barrel with FG or FFG?
There should be a way of calculating combustion effeciency in a given barrel with a given powder (fuel). Thereby making cartridge developement an easier chore, rather than by trial and error. These types of experiments are done all the type in the automobile industry.
Can you get burn rates and other characteristics of GOEX in the different grades? I thought I would contact an Automotive engineer freind of mine and ask the question of calculating combustion efficency. Given the "chamber" is a cylinder instead of some complex shape, it might not be to hard to do.
Does this sound like a good idea or rediculous?
A really intrigued:
Texas Shooter
"Aim Small, Miss Small!"
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Kelley O.Roos
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Texas Shooter,
Ask your Auto Engineer friend. I think the two will be different, mostly because of the way fuel and air are mixed for combustion. To get burn rate for black powder, a tube a certain length is filled with powder and then ignited and the time it takes for the powder to burn the length of the tube determans the burn rate, thats what I've been told.
Kelley O.
Ask your Auto Engineer friend. I think the two will be different, mostly because of the way fuel and air are mixed for combustion. To get burn rate for black powder, a tube a certain length is filled with powder and then ignited and the time it takes for the powder to burn the length of the tube determans the burn rate, thats what I've been told.
Kelley O.
Kelley O.Roos
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Texas Shooter
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