Battleship loads

Bearbait2 · Post by **Bearbait2** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:31 am

Never too old to learn something new. Thank you!
Shoot Staight

Omak Cowboy · Post by **Omak Cowboy** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:39 am

Thanks for the photo of the main guns at work...HOLLY BATRATCHET!

Now after Pearl, there must have been a certain sense of grim satisfaction in firing these at the Japanese Imperial Troups.

I had heard that the firing of all the main guns moved the ship sideways some number of feet. Would anyone know if this is true?

That's a hole hell of a lot of tonnage to move in one moment. MAN! Talk about RECOIL!!
Omak

Omak Cowboy · Post by **Omak Cowboy** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:40 am

Opps...ment to say a "WHOLE" hell of a lot

ah fingers sometimes move faster than brain

omak

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:34 am

I am just wondering about the affect on the hearing of the fellow who took that photograph of that broadside. His ears must have rung for a month. That is if he could hear anything at all.

I have heard that about the side slippage of the ship too when fireing a broadside of those 16 inch rifles. But I do not know that it is a fact.

cowboybob · Post by **cowboybob** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:51 am

My boss when I was a kid was a Korean war vet who was in a mountain division and he said one of the most amazing things he ever saw was most of a mountain destroyed by those big 16" guns. I guess there was a lot of resistance on this mountain and they were having trouble taking it so they called in support from the Navy and those battleships fired on their position all night and in the morning the mountain was reduced to a big pile of rubble and the resistance was gone.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:51 pm

Omak: the 16"MkVII gun mount had about 48" of movement to absorb recoil. The ship did not move.

The link that Mike Hansen posted has a great deal of info on it.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:03 pm

Woodcutter--The below is from the above link that I posted concerning propellants:

“Flashless Powder - Propellant formulation that reduces the amount of flame emitted from the gun muzzle. Useful in night engagements as it does not give away the position of the firing ship. Not really ‘flashless’ but much less so than standard propellants.”

You can’t hide the flash, but it’s duration can be controlled to an extent. The quicker the flash, the harder it will be to accurately spot, esp. if you are 20 or so miles away.

Compressed air is a great way to clear the bore, extinguish any residual burning embers, etc. I do believe that newer 155mm howitzer—sp & towed-- has some type of built in bore evacuator. Nexrt time I go thru Ft.Lewis, I'll need to check.

Read all ‘bout it:
http://www.warships1.com/Weapons/Gun_Da ... efinitions

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:07 pm

Lee Stone I bet they utilized some sort of automatic camera. Not only is the noise awesome, but the muzzle blast is no slouch.

I once had the unfortunate experience to "catch" the muzzle blast from a 105mm howitzer firing charge 7.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:10 pm

Ray,

I'll bet you are right. That was probably a remotely actuated camera in some manner. I did not think of the muzzle blast. That would be more dangerous than the noise. I cannot immagine what the muzzle blast from those 16 inch rifles must be like. I'll bet the blast from that 105 sure got your attention.

RichBratlee · Post by **RichBratlee** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:29 pm

Hi folks, Well back to what my buddy was saying when he was on the Iowa--a full 9 un broadside would heel the boat over about 3 degrees and move sideways up to 13 feet--but then he was a snipe and down in the hole at the time--

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:23 pm

“Do Battleships move sideways when they fire?"
By R. A. Landgraff and Greg Locock
Updated 02 August 2000

“I get asked about once a month if the Iowa (or Bismarck, Yamato, etc.) move sidewayswhen they fire a full broadside. To save myself some time, I've plagiarized Dick Landgraff's very good answer to this same question (what are friends for?). In addition, Greg Locock kindly pointed out an error in my math when I ineptly tried to calculate a real number for the motion. " Tony DiGiulian

“What looks like a side-ways wake is just the water being broiled up by the muzzle blasts. The ship doesn't move an inch or even heel from a broadside.

"The guns have a recoil slide of up to 48 inches and the shock is distributed evenly through the turret foundation and the hull structure. The mass of a 57,000 ton ship is just too great for the recoil of the guns to move it. Well, theoretically, a fraction of a millimeter.

“But because of the expansive range of the overpressure (muzzle blast), a lot of the rapidly displaced air presses against the bulkheads and decks. Those structures that are not armored actually flex inwards just a bit, thus displacing air quickly inside the ship and causing loose items to fly around. Sort of like having your house sealed up with all windows and vents closed and when you slam the front door quickly the displaced air pops open the kitchen cabinets.”

Read all ‘bout it:
http://www.warships1.com/index_tech/tech-022.htm

13Echo · Post by **13Echo** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:23 pm

Ok as an old Redleg I just had to join to get in this discussion.

First no modern cannon since the early 20th century has used blackpowder as the main propelling charge. They use various formulations of smokeless based on nitrocellulose (in other words a single base powder). The bigger guns, especially the separate loading guns, do use an initiator charge of black on the end of the charge 1 powder bag. The percussion primers also use a charge of black. The main propellent charges have various additives to suppress muzzle flash. I was always amazed how little flash an 8" howitzer would produce at night even firing the heavier charges.

The brass or bronze ring on the projectile is the rotating band. It engages the rifling to spin the projo.

A bore evacuator is a common device on all guns that fire from an enclosed space (turret). It keeps the turret from filling with powder smoke when the breech is opened. Naval rifles used compressed air to blow the gases out the end of the tube. Field guns will have a chamber fitted around the barrel that is connected to the bore by a series of holes drilled slanting toward the muzzle. When the piece is fired high pressure gas fills the chamber. After the shell leaves the muzzle the gas re-enters the bore blowing toward the muzzle and blows the residual powder smoke out the end. This is not needed on towed pieces. The next time you look at a self propelled gun or M60 tank look for a swelling about halfway to the muzzle. That's the bore evacuator.

AS for Battleships moving sideways, I really don't know but I do know the recoil cradles of modern field guns are extremely efficient at absorbing recoil and I suspect the Navy's are just as good, or better, since they can afford a lot more weight in the gun and mount.

Big Gun · Post by **Big Gun** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:18 pm

While serving with the 5th INF Division in Northern I Corps, Viet Nam 69-70, I remember one day when the CO got on the radio and told us to look skyward...through a break in the low ceiling of clouds we were able to see several groups of three 16" projectiles from the big ship off the coast. To this day I am amazed at how close together the projectiles flew in formation as they went over us. We were in from the coast a number of miles near FSB C2 and near the end of their flight path. However, as impressive as that was, it never held the pucker factor of being up close to a B-52 strike.

Woodcutter · Post by **Woodcutter** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:41 pm

As some of you probably know, the Iowa class 16 inch guns were designated by the Navy as 50 caliber. That is, the bore length is 50 times the diameter. Anyway, you big gun shooters can make believe next time you touch off your big 50s.

BuckeyeShooter · Post by **BuckeyeShooter** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:39 pm

I was a gunners mate in the Navy and must of had some passing references to the big guns during "A" school but don't remember much about them. I remember real well the day the Iowa pulled back into Norfolk after it's turret explosion. Standing there on the pier looking at the aftermath of all that powder igniting in that confined space left a lasting memory.

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