Shiloh Rifle

[Harlan Sage]

I would like a see some comparisons and thoughts on what everyone likes for the long range gun. I have always thought that the 45-90 with 34" tube is the rifle of choice. My reasoning is I can shoot a 540 gr bullet with Swiss and get 1340 fps with the plenty of sight radius.

Rdnck, Kenny and other 45-110 shooters,
I am always in favor of adding to my gun room. Tell me more about the 110's and why you like them over the 45-90 for long range.

Lets get this can of worms open!

Harlan
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[Michael Johnson]

Personally Harlan, I think the best long range gun is whatever floats your boat. I have a 45-100 Shiloh LRE. The 45-90 and the 45-100 were both used a lot for long range target shooting. Kenny has written a lot about Frank Hyde's 45-110. All three chamberings can be loaded to give adequate velocity to reach out past 1000 yards. I don't like exposed grease grooves so I went with the 100. It sounds like you are shooting a 45-100 "powder load"; thats cool with me. Kenny can get great velocity with Fg goex by virtue of having a longer case. Basically there are lots of ways to skin a cat! That is one of the great things about BPCR. -Mike

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Harlin,

Michael, pretty much cut the bacon just the way it is. Any of these 3 cartridges will and DO! work for BPCR long range.

This perhaps sums it up best?

Last year at the World Creedmoor Assoc Matches I had brought a new Fg load for my 45-110 to shoot and a new load of FFg Goex for my 45-70 for the midrange part of the matches.

Chrono Data was surprising to say the least! My 45-70 load gave 1260 fps at the muzzle with the FF Goex load for the first shot and avg around 1240 fps with a 520 gr Postell bullet.

My new Fg load of 114 grs of Fg Elephant gave a very slow 1214 fps avg speed and tons of fouling. The new Elephant I had bought was slower then my older lots that had gave a 1250 fps MV with 110 grs of powder. Right then and there based on the Data I got a case of Fg Goex. I went back to the same weight of load that had originaly worked well in my 45-110 with older lots of Fg Elephant.

108.5 grs, This amount of Goex took up a good deal more volume in the 45-110 case then the Elephant load, and the end result was an amount of .380 compression to get the bullet to the depth I need to seat it and chamber the round.

However, in this load that I am currently using with some very good results this past year several things have come apparent!

It burns Very CLEAN! I no longer have excessive fouling, as a mater of fact this load cleans up easier then my 45-70 load does, it all most looks like a very good duplex load or smokless. 2-3 patches and its clean! As to the point of deminished returns? I have not got to it with Fg Goex in my 45-110. 108.5 grs yields a MV of 1340 fps in a 34 inch barrel on my 45-110 Shiloh Sharps. ES of 11 Fps and SD of 3 fps. I was just dumbfounded when I looked down my barrel after my first outing with the Fg Goex load. I thought it a fluke. It was not!

I think, that it’s a combo of the components that makes this all happen, Lube, Powder, and the correct bullet.

For what ever reasons the Fg Goex load is with the correct amount of compression a very clean shooting load. I dont know why it works All I can say is it does. With every match that I had the chance too attend this year I compared my load and the fouling with other loads folks were using. I looked down dirty barrels and showed folks mine.

When the Rdnck got his first 45-110 he called asked for some load help I gave him the load data and he did some small changes for his chamber and rifle set up and the brass, He seats his bullets deeper so he used 2.5 grs less powder. A day or so later he called me with reports of the disbelief he was having over the state of the fouling in the barrel after many shots with out cleaning. And wanted to know if mine shoot this clean also. I told him yes it did much to my own disbelief. I still have a hard time and am astounded by the clean burning of the load. He stated that he felt if burned cleaner then his 45-70 load was. Again I had to agree with him as that was the assesment I had of my loads also. In his Shiloh Bull barreled rifle again the same thing, very very light fouling and excellent accuracy.

I wish I could take all the credit and say wow I got the 45-110 to finaly shoot like the old timers made em shoot. But its all in Sharps catalog literture. Just took me 8 years to figure it out! And of course it took the correct powder lube and bullet combo. Current lots of Fg Goex work as if it was the perfect powder for a 45-110.

Very little is known about the end of the first Creedmoor era, just bits here and there. But we are sure one of the best shooters of the time was using a 45-110 and it was in a Borchardt Long range rifle.

I like the 45-110 for Personal and Historical reasons. My choice. Its Reputation on the buffalo ranges is legendary something that the 45-90 and 45-100 only wish they could of attain. From a Historical aspect the 45-110 is just well, COOL! As some may guess Frank Hyde, and John Bodine are several of my Personal BP Heros, NOW that I have found that Hyde was playing with a 45-110 is just all the better.

Of interest is the 45-100 and 45-90. As the old timers shot both rounds in LR with NEVER Less then 100 grs of powder.! As Mike V pointed out never say never but!!!!! In Long Range loading the 2.4 case was loaded with 100 grs of Powder. The 2.6 case had a short life, and the 2.4 took over..

Most of todays Long range shooters are using 45-90's and a few 45-100's most will agree that around 1300 fps is the MV they think works best some are pushing 1400! I think that’s too much and recoil does become an issue to me at least. I have one FFg load that does 1403 out of clean barrel and it just about hammers me to death. You will be hard pressed to get 1340 fps with straight BP in a 45-90 with out going to FFFg Swiss or duplexing. I might be wrong on that? Again Harlin you have proven with Compressed 1.5 Swiss to reach that mark. But the Majority of 45-90 shooters do duplex when they can. A 2 time National LR Champ is playing with FFFg swiss in his 45-90.
I think I just got lucky and happened onto a combo that makes the 45-110 shoot up to its potential is all. The buffalo hunters knew it and it would appear that some Creedmoor shooters also did. I am just darn glad that I did luck into this and make Today's 45-110's shoot much like the Originals were said to shoot.

If we take a hard look at my own personal 45-110, its about what a Rifle Crank with perhaps some western or say Buffalo hunter background, would of ordered to try his hand at 1000 yard shooting. It’s a double Set trigger 1874 Sharps with a straight stock with shotgun butt, a 34 inch #1 heavy barrel. Our Gun Crank would of ordered a heavy barrel knowing full well this dampens recoil, and the double sets, knowing that the heavy rifle and double sets were more in line with what he was used to shooting.

LJ, Kirk’s Father-inlaw has one now, and is amazed at how well it shots and how little it fouls. Folks that have recently got one and are using similar loading to mine are sort of put out that they did not know about this sooner!

Everyone has a 45-90, Well I just like to be different, and there are no Records of 10,000 rounds a month of 45-90 being Shipped to Ft Laramie WY Territory. I have a Business rifle now on the floor and its in 45-110 btw that rifle is being built for the business of Killing buffalo be it a cape or an American Bision.

As we Say, Powder River let her BUCK!

Kenny Wasserburger
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Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter

[AL Rittenhouse]

Kenny
If you didn't have the 45-110 now and were going to buy another Sharps would you buy the 45-110 over the others. Keeping in mind that you are not aware of what any of the others would do. In other words you have no previous knowledge of the three. I have as you know the 45-100 and if you had that caliber would you still want the 45-110? Later Al
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[Kenny Wasserburger]

Hey AL,

Remember a few years back on Shooters.com I made mention if I were to do it all over again I would go with a 45-100 for BPCR Long Range.

I must say that after the last 16 months with my 45-110, THAT I WILL WITHDRAW that Statement. Thats how sure of the 45-110 I am these days.
I have 3 Medals from a NRA Regional Creedmoor match, a first and 2 thirds the pretty much was the icing on this years cake in LR matches. And I was not shooting against a bunch of Cherries at Missoula eather.

It would be a 45-110 all over again, only difference would be a 14 lb Bull Barrel.

Kenny Wasserburger
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We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter

[rdnck]

Harlan--I don't think you can improve on a 14 to 15 pound 45-110 as a long range rifle. I have a 14 1/2 pound Shiloh 45-110 with a 30 inch barrel, and it gets the job done, no sweat, no strain, NO FOULING OR LEADING, no problem.

A case full of Goex 1f is 106 grains in my cases, and this pushes a 549 grain Paul Jones Creedmoor at 1332 fps with a standard deviation of 3 to 5. And it burns so clean and moist, you will not believe it.

I have three rifles in 45-90. One of them is a really good one. They will shoot long range, sure. But. They work harder, kick harder, get hotter,and foul a lot more than this 45-110 to get the same velocity with the same bullet.

I just got back from doing some bullet tests at 1000 yards today, and just counted my empties. 68 consecutive shots without a break, only a blow tube, no wiping. You can still see all the rifling, and one dry patch pushes out moist, greasy fouling. I don't have another rifle that will do that regardless of caliber.

Al--I have two more Shilohs on order at the present time. One is a 40-65 for my wife. The other is a Number 3 Sporter with a 30 inch bull barrel in 45-110 that should weigh about 14 1/2 pounds. The one I have works so well that I didn't want to get caught without a back up. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Ron B]

I really like my 45-90 , when looking for a case length several years ago I was told not to go over this length cartrige as the longer cases had problems with case life, I was told this by the owner of C sharps Arms, And I believe that his advice was well given.
Ifa person looks at records from the different years in the sharps rifle Co they started going to the shorter case of the 45-2-4/10 and i believe they had a good reason in doing this my rifle shoots very welland I have no reason to regret my choice in case length.
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[Outrider]

Kenny W.

Now you've got me thinking abou the .45-110. At first I discounted it because of the added cost of tooling up for it and especially the cost of brass. But now.....
Just tell me what you think would be the plusses and minuses of a 34" heavy octagon vs a 30" 14 lb bull bbl (besides the obvious additional $650.00). Would a bull bbl add significantly to the waiting time? I've spent some time with my .45-70's but would like to step up. One detractor is that the longest range I can easily get to is 500 yds. Not many wide open spaces in my neck of the woods.
Outrider
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[hatchet]

Just to see how times have changed in the past two years. With the new Goex express I'm getting 1315 fps with a 540grain P.J., very clean burn, low s.d. & excellent groups in the 45-90.
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[bulldog]

Harlan, Im a thinking that what really makes that 45-110 not foul and etc. is the BS factor those guys have added to their loads! Not to mention any names.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bulldog,

Perhaps your right? I know what kind of fouling issues I have or dont have anymore using Fg Express in my 45-110. This year at Raton I just used a blow tube and won 1000 yrds both days and 800 day two. Good enough to win a national championship in the scope class. Second day score was a 255-4x and in some tough conditions. Shot over 45 rounds that day and never cleaned the rifle. Using Whitelighting lube and a mono groove bullet. Besides winning the scope national championship I also finished in the top 10 agg of the Creedmoor. These big 45's are more then up to the task. Jim and I were also the 2nd place team down 6 points to the national champion team.

End of Day One Creedmoor Nationals, saw my shooting pardner Jim Terry match winner with his 45-110, Jim went on to finish 6th in the aggs for Creedmoor and was 2nd overall expert. Jim uses Swiss Fg and the same lube I do.

2 weeks after Raton Jim and I shot the Sagebrush match at Alliance Neb. I fired a clean score at 1000 yards 10/10 won the scope class second year in row, my pard Jim fished 3rd overall. we shot about 50 shots that day both of us never cleaned all day.

2 weeks ago at Big whiskey I shot 60 plus rounds and my last ten were on the pigs using my 45-110, 10/10 pigs, group size was about the size of a tennis ball according to my spotter and several others watching again I never cleaned the gun all day. At 300 meters thats good enough for me.

Just the facts, I am speaking of. I am one of those guys that puts my 45-110 were my mouth is.

Kenny Wasserburger
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We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter

[Ray Newman]

Rdnck & Kenny: you mentioned GOEX Fg.

To be a bit more specific is this "run-of-the-mill" GOEX or the new Express?
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[powderburner]

I am goin to step up here as well . my full case of 1F compressed to seat whatever bullet is simply sanitary. . I even used the same load with a paper patch bullet that shot way better than I was expecting out to 1100 yards . with no cleaning. 50rnds and they still slid in there same as the first . my 560 gn bullet is seated 2/10 in the case .yup its clean... Dean

my goex is plain not express/
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[drcook]

I have been shooting "run of the mill" Goex Fg in my 45-100 for the last 2 years and the new 110 this yr and experiencing the same results for the most part, ie: clean shooting, not much fouling, accuracy. The new 45-110 with its heavy barrel is a real pleasure to shoot

[hatchet]

Kenny, are you using the same 108.5 load with Express that you were using with regular Goex? If so, did it change the results where you had to go up or down in charge. Also, what is your velocity with Express compared to regular?
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