Shiloh Rifle Forums

Gents,

Long time since I've had a chance to chime in here. Spent moving out of Il and back to home state of MI so have been a little preoccupied. Now new year is upon us and thinking about what I'd like to do this coming year.

Just before leaving IL I received my first Shiloh, 1877 in 40-65, 32" round barrel, 1-16" twist. I imagine I'm right up there at the top of the list for longest wait for ordered rifle. 6 years, 8 months and 13 days from deposit to delivery! Makes me chuckle when someone comes on here and gripes about a year plus wait for their baby, hah! Just to be clear, not complaining, rifle was worth the wait!

1. STILL have not been able to shoot a Silly-wette match, hope to get that off my bucket list.

2. And the reason for this thread, any good suggestions for a hunting bullet for this caliber? I've only shot grease groove so far. Was starting to get interested in a DD PP bullet just prior to the move but due to time constraints "interested" is as far as it's gotten.

I've cast for years but primarily for hunting with my pistols, which has primarily been 45 Colt with LBT molds, WFN from 300 to 342gr with gas check. In doing so used good ole water dropped wheel weight with 1% tin added to help fill the mold. No complaints at all but a different cat when shooting a rifle.

With the pistol I was not looking for expansion, just the opposite, stiff bullet for straight penetration and flat nose for shock.

Assuming the flat nose would apply for the 40-65? Or is there an element of expansion to be desired? Not looking at long range shots, 150 yards would be a long poke. Currently have pure lead and tin on hand so can make up any alloy, but do have 20:1 ready to go.

Suggestions for:

A. Maker and model of bullet?

B. Bullet weight?

Trigger

No hunting experience with .40/65, but I took a .45-70 to Africa with my regular 520 gr. 1:20 match bullets with the tip cut to a 5/16" flat-they killed well and expanded.

Clarence

Probably the saeco 40 cal would be a good start
#640 it can do both and it’s about right for the 16 twist.

In my .40-65's with 1:16" twist barrels I am using a Lyman Snover that's listed as a 400 gr. but drops at around 408 grs. for my alloy. It's a great bullet that works well for my rifles out to 1000 yds.
I've also taken it hunting for mule deer and although I considered it a bit heavier than needed for deer it did a great job, and didn't damage a lot of meat on deer as I thought it might.
I use this same bullet in my Ballard Pacific in .40-85 Ballard, and a couple Ballards in .40-63/70 Ballard also. They have much slower twist rates, but still shoot this bullet very well.

has worked well in a 14 twist 40-82, a 16 twist 40-70 and a 16 twist 40-65. Id suggest a DDPP bullet but dont know the dimensions of your barrel or brass, that that makes it tough.


matt

This is my hunting bullet profile I use for the .40-70 and the .44's. The bottom one is a nose pour that Steve Brooks made for me from an original bullet I sent him for making the mould.
These bullets ave never failed doing the job. It took three Bisons using the .44-90bn and the .44-77. The .40-70 or the .40-65 is a very North Woods Deer caliber with that bullet.
The Copper scraper wad I can attach or leave it loose so it expands to groove diameter if I use a bullet patched slightly under bore diameter for a fast follow up shot if I need it.
That scraper wad cleans the bore of fouling build up very well.

Here is what the scraper looks like. When it is loaded like a wad (unattached) it expands filling the grooves or if attached the bullet should be a groove diameter to do the job the best with a GG.

Gents,

Thanks for the information, helpful.

Surprised at the rounded nose shapes on all the suggestions, was expecting some flat tip choices in there. Have never seen a flat tip on a bullet like this so that is why I was asking.

So if your using a generally round profile are you relying on the 40 cal diameter to do the dirty deed, or are you casting them soft 30:1 and hoping for some upset to help with energy transfer?

My current batch of alloy is mixed at 20:1, too hard for this application?

Kurt,

As noted earlier I'm a long time caster for pistols, primarily heavy smokeless loads for a custom Bowen Ruger Bisley in 45 colt. I almost always use gas checks so am very familiar with them.

Have never seen what you show in your pictures! Very cool, did not know such a thing existed. Bunch of question!

1. Do you make those or purchased?

2. If purchased are they a flat disc and then you put the hole in them with a nail? How do you do that so that they are EXACTLY the same?

3. If purchased, where from?

4. If made, how? Those edges are very square, good for scraping bore, I would think a hand held punch would round the edges to some extent?

5. Or do you drive the nail in from a specific side which pulls the edges back square with the bore?

6. Looking at the pic of the finished bullet the nail hole allows the check to be physically locked on to the bullet, that makes sense. But the base of the bullet now looks flat, not concave like in the other photos. Do you flatten them before installing? Or are they flattened some how in the casting process?

7. You say the check works best with GG bullets, which is fine by me, yet the example you show is on what appears to be a PP bullet. Why would you use a check on a PP bullet? Shouldn't be to control lead fouling as the PP should do that. at the shot the fouling is behind the bullet, not in front so scratching my head on why you would use a check on a PP.

Tons of questions. Would it be too much to ask you to write up and share your entire checking process along with pictures? Would greatly appreciate a "How to".

Thanks in advance!

Wade

Wade,

The base guard is nothing new, they dates back to the 1800rds.
I used to swage a lot of bullets and I still do. I got into swaging back in the early 60's because I could not buy bullets I wanted and Hester's at this time made equipment but mostly swaging GG and ungrooved as well as Hemp equipment. Corbin, both Dave and Richard made my last presses and dies.
Those base guards are cut with Dave Corbins dies. They are cut very similar as the wads we use for loading cartridges.
This shows it better than I can put down.
I think at one time you could buy them from Corbin. You might look in the link I sent.
http://www.corbins.com/bgk-1.htm
http://www.corbins.com/gascheck.htm

This is possible using them unattached to the paper patched bullet base so it expands fully to groove diameter. I used them when I formed these 100 cases for the .44-100 with out fouling control just load and shoot. Just a couple went out of the 4" group at 200 yards and that was most likely me getting in a hurry to empty the loads. It was a little chilly that day
That rifle has a 35" long 1.3" diameter barrel. The disk is like you see it and the hole is punched through cutting the disk. That hole is for the lead to get pushed through when you swage the bullet and it is flat but also it will be the diameter of the swaged bullet and the disk will be undersized to fill the groove. You have to use them loose under the PP bullet unless you make them for groove diameter or use them under a GG.
They work very well for pistol bullets with pure or soft lead without lube.
But they have stretched annealed cases when they are used as a loose scrapper wad. Cases fired many times has not been a problem.

Kurt

Lyman at one time made a 410655 bullet that had a flat nose and weighed about 420 grains. It would be a good hunting bullet for the 40/65. They show up sometimes on ebay. I killed one deer with that bullet in a 405 Ruger #1. Accurate shows many bullets from 300 through 400 grains that would be suitable. All accurate bullets have a flat nose and can be custom configured to your desired diameter. I like a flat nose bullet for hunting. My son and I did expansion tests on 38/55 bullets in different alloys and found little difference in 30/1 to 16/1 alloys. Just don't use hard alloys such a Lyman #2 or wheel weights.

You haven't mentioned what you're hunting for yet? But if it's deer then almost any cast lead bullet shape in a .40 caliber like your .40-65 is going to bring down deer at the 150 yd. distance you mentioned. Even if it doesn't expand a lot it's still going to kill if your shot is well placed. And on larger game like elk it should work as well and get good penetration with the larger bodies, and heavier bones.

The proper bullet weight for the 40-65WCF is 260 grains for 1400fps velocity. This flattens the trajectory and gives the meplat more splash. A LBT long flat nose with a .28” meplat and the nose ahead of the first gg .005” smaller than bore diameter for fouling clearance. Lube with 2 parts cooking oil to 1 part bees wax. Accurate Molds can make your mold for about $100. 20/1 alloy works well with black powder.