What am I doing wrong here?
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:14 pm
So I finally got my .45-90 LRE a few weeks ago. Wonderful craftsmanship, eye-catching rifle- looking forward to shooting it finally.
Before I made up a box of loaded cartridges I slipped some random sized (with my orange box Lyman 45-90 3 die set) but empty .45-90 cases (new, unfired Starlines I bought last fall) into the chamber to check fit. They slide in without a hitch but with almost no play, which I would expect for these rifles. The block would close and the cases extract when the block drops to its lowest travel. So far, so good.
I then made up a dummy round to test seating depth. I expanded with my Lyman expander die just enough to start a sized and lubed 500 grain Lyman Schmittzer (one of those old ones back when Lyman sold sized BPCR bullets). The bullet was seated up to the last band above the grease groove. When I went to chamber the round, it got almost in and then stopped with about 1/4" sticking out. Figuring the expander flared the case too much, I then used an old trick I learned for automatic pistol cases when they won't chamber- I ran the loaded round into the sizing die with the decapper removed to squeeze the round down to fit. Now the round will seat almost flush with the breech, but it takes the block rising to seat it the last little bit but then the extractor can't pull it out. In fact, the only way the round will come out is to go in with a shotgun rod to the muzzle and gently tap the handle to drive the dummy round out.
I figured this had something to do with the shape/length/nose diameter of that particular bullet, so I tried it two other dummy rounds - one with a Lee 459-405 HB and the other with a Lyman 457122 330 grain Gould HP. Both were cast by me with a mix of range scrap tempered with tin to about 30:1. I seated each the same way and had the same issue, and the same problem again even after squeezing with the sizing die and crimping with the seating die. Same darn thing- they almost seat home but need an extra push for the block to close, and they won't come out without the cleaning rod push. I figured the 330 grain bullet should work since there's hardly any exposed bullet length, but something is obviously wrong.
The fact that this is happening with an unfired rifle rules out fouling, so I suspect this might be one of those unfortunate combos with a chamber cut on the minus side of the spec and a sizing die on the plus side. I've got some Cerrosafe lying around and plan to cast the chamber and the sizing die this weekend to see if there's something up with either one, but I was hoping somebody here had some insight on what I'm doing wrong and how to fix the issue. I looked through the forum but the other threads on chambering all seemed to be related to fouling or bullets being seated out too long or with oversized nose diameters, which I don't think is the scenario here. Or maybe there is and I'm misdiagnosing the cause? The fact that it's happening with three different bullets all with different OAL makes me wonder if there's a chamber length issue. What trim length do you .45-90 owners use?
In case it's relevant, I did anneal the brass with a torch to the upper 1/4 to 1/2".
Thanks for your help. I've been learning a lot from you guys.
Leadville Bill
Before I made up a box of loaded cartridges I slipped some random sized (with my orange box Lyman 45-90 3 die set) but empty .45-90 cases (new, unfired Starlines I bought last fall) into the chamber to check fit. They slide in without a hitch but with almost no play, which I would expect for these rifles. The block would close and the cases extract when the block drops to its lowest travel. So far, so good.
I then made up a dummy round to test seating depth. I expanded with my Lyman expander die just enough to start a sized and lubed 500 grain Lyman Schmittzer (one of those old ones back when Lyman sold sized BPCR bullets). The bullet was seated up to the last band above the grease groove. When I went to chamber the round, it got almost in and then stopped with about 1/4" sticking out. Figuring the expander flared the case too much, I then used an old trick I learned for automatic pistol cases when they won't chamber- I ran the loaded round into the sizing die with the decapper removed to squeeze the round down to fit. Now the round will seat almost flush with the breech, but it takes the block rising to seat it the last little bit but then the extractor can't pull it out. In fact, the only way the round will come out is to go in with a shotgun rod to the muzzle and gently tap the handle to drive the dummy round out.
I figured this had something to do with the shape/length/nose diameter of that particular bullet, so I tried it two other dummy rounds - one with a Lee 459-405 HB and the other with a Lyman 457122 330 grain Gould HP. Both were cast by me with a mix of range scrap tempered with tin to about 30:1. I seated each the same way and had the same issue, and the same problem again even after squeezing with the sizing die and crimping with the seating die. Same darn thing- they almost seat home but need an extra push for the block to close, and they won't come out without the cleaning rod push. I figured the 330 grain bullet should work since there's hardly any exposed bullet length, but something is obviously wrong.
The fact that this is happening with an unfired rifle rules out fouling, so I suspect this might be one of those unfortunate combos with a chamber cut on the minus side of the spec and a sizing die on the plus side. I've got some Cerrosafe lying around and plan to cast the chamber and the sizing die this weekend to see if there's something up with either one, but I was hoping somebody here had some insight on what I'm doing wrong and how to fix the issue. I looked through the forum but the other threads on chambering all seemed to be related to fouling or bullets being seated out too long or with oversized nose diameters, which I don't think is the scenario here. Or maybe there is and I'm misdiagnosing the cause? The fact that it's happening with three different bullets all with different OAL makes me wonder if there's a chamber length issue. What trim length do you .45-90 owners use?
In case it's relevant, I did anneal the brass with a torch to the upper 1/4 to 1/2".
Thanks for your help. I've been learning a lot from you guys.
Leadville Bill