Africa

[Oregon Bill]

Brother and I are in the getting-serious phase of planning a plains game hunt in Africa for the likes of oryx, kudu, eland and zebra. I'm toying with the idea of taking a Sharps, but none of the Sharps chamberings match the big British BPC cartridges of the later 1800s in terms of power. If you were picking your poison for shots to 200 yards on some pretty big critters, what would you choose to go with? That said, I can't imagine a heavy lead .458 or .512 slug failing eventually to do its work if put in the proper spot. Brent Danielson did good work recently in Namibia with his Sharps in .45-110 and PP bullets, and I know MLV took a .40-70 SBN several years ago.

[Trigger Dr]

Oregon Bill,
The 500 3 1/4 Black Powder express is the equilevent of the 50 140. Both have the same ballistics, and will do0 the job if you do yours.
Jim

[Brant Selb]

[quote="Oregon Bill"]Brother and I are in the getting-serious phase of planning a plains game hunt in Africa for the likes of oryx, kudu, eland and zebra. I'm toying with the idea of taking a Sharps, but none of the Sharps chamberings match the big British BPC cartridges of the later 1800s in terms of power. If you were picking your poison for shots to 200 yards on some pretty big critters, what would you choose to go with? That said, I can't imagine a heavy lead .458 or .512 slug failing eventually to do its work if put in the proper spot. Brent Danielson did good work recently in Namibia with his Sharps in .45-110 and PP bullets, and I know MLV took a .40-70 SBN several years ago.[/quote]

Oregon Bill,

I'm pretty sure Brent used his 45-100 on his trip. I've hunted Africa pretty extensively and have NO DOUBT the 45-110 is more than up to the task for the game you will be hunting. My new 45-110 was purchased with Namibia in mind and the same game you are contemplating. I guarantee my pp load at 1400 fps will flat put any of those animals "wheels up" ! Have a great hunt--and take your Sharps.

Brant

[Clarence]

Bill,

I took a Sharps .45-90 to Africa this last June. Because of concerns about government bureaucracy getting through customs, I chose to shoot s*@#&*@*s ammo. You can read some of the past posts, but the quick summary is that I used a standard Creedmoor bullet, 1:20, seated just like my blackpowder rounds (slightly into the rifling), Fed 215, a 0.455" expander plug and medium taper crimp (for a bit more than normal neck tension), and used a jig to cut the tip of the bullet at 3" OAL length, which gave me a 3/8" meplat. Load was 31.7 gr. of 5744; velocity averaged 1360 fps. Accuracy was well under 2 MOA at hunting ranges.

Performance on animals was good, with the exception of a bad shot on a blue wildebeest. Best we could tell, I must have pulled the shot low and left and hit in the lower brisket. We tracked for a day, but could never catch up with him, and eventually the bleeding stopped. I think results would have been similar regardless of rifle caliber.

On the other 6 animals, all were 1 shot kills, 3 went no more than 5 yards; only 1 went more than 25 yards, and that was a big warthog who made it 75-80 yards. Shots fired broadside had total penetration; the 4 shots at quartering animals each penetrated around 24 inches and were found on the offside under the skin, either in the shoulder in the case of quartering away or near the rear of the ribcage in the case of quartering toward. Bullets weighed 460-512 gr., compared to 520 gr. before fired, and were expanded from 0.72-0.88" in diameter. With the exception of a blesbok that was lasered at 180 yards (I had raised the sight to 150 yds, and held on the top of the shoulder for a heart shot), all were within 100 yds. The sights were set for 100 yards, but I knew the changes required for each 20 yards up to 200 yards. I considered bullet performance and killing power completely acceptable.

I used an MVA 133 (no windage, no elevation screw) with the rear aperture drilled out to 0.096" (3/32) and a copper penny front.

If I go back in a couple of years, as I hope, I won't have any qualms about taking the same rifle and load for any plains game.

If you have velocities below 1300 fps, I think 1:30 alloy would work very well. If I were doing it again, I think I would go with a 5/16" meplat, which would likely penetrate a bit deeper.

I'm not much for posting photos in Photobucket so they can be seen here, but would reply to a pm.

Clarence

[Oregon Bill]

Brant:
You are right -- Brent's gun is a .45-100. Thanks to you and Clarence for your replies. It means a lot to hear from fellas who have actually been there and done that.
Bill

[rdnck]

Oregon Bill--Not to worry. ANY of the 45 caliber rifles will get the job done on plains game using black powder. If the only caliber I had was a 45-70, I would carry it and not worry about the outcome.

There is a caveat, though, if you use a 45-70. USE 70 GRAINS OF POWDER, either 2f or 3f. That, and USE A 500 GRAIN OR HEAVIER BULLET at 30-1. Also, use a round nosed bullet such as the Lyman 457125. At 30-1, it flattens sufficiently to give a large wound channel, and more importantly, it gives maximum penetration. It will shoot through and through any of the plains animals. The flat nosed bullet causes a loss in penetration.

If I were to go tomorrow, I would carry my Business Rifle in 45-110. One reason is because I have it. The other is that it shoots 110 grains of Goex 1f Express and a round nosed 511 grain paper patched bullet at 30-1 and 1389 fps very accurately. My back up rifle would be my Hartford 45-70 loaded with the Govt bullet and 70 grains of Goex 3f Express. It won't take "no" for an answer at 1240 fps.

This will penetrate 60 inches of American bison, so it should handle any of the plains antelope and zebra. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Oregon Bill]

Guys, again, thanks for the advice. I'm only about 10 months into my wait for my rifle, and had been thinking about a Hartford in .44-77 or .50-70, but I'm now thinking about going with a Bridgeport-style sporting rifle in .45-110. I know it's a darned fine hunting round and Kenny W., Rdnck and others have proven it's a competitor on the target range.

[flatwater]

Bill-
Sounds like you're getting some sage advice from experienced shooters. I have used a 45-70 on plains game, but have used only one load in this caliber: 63grains GOEX 2F, CCI 200, tablet backing topwad, and a very hard, very flat meplat 405 grain bullet commercially available from Oregon Trail, marked "Lazercast". This was heavily crimped in the crimp groove with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It shot very accurately in my gun.
I shot 16 animals with 17 shots using this load, but the one extra shot really wasn't needed. I confined my shot to 80meters (90yds) for the toughest of game (oryx and zebra), and 110 meters on others. No oryx or zebra bullets (6 total) exited, but penetration was very good.
I felt that the gun was a little light for longer shots. At 200 yards a .512 is what I'd like.................................Flatwater Bill

[rdnck]

flatwater--Your experience with a 45-70 in Africa confirms my take on the 45-70. Your load of 63 grains of Goex 2f and a 405 grain bullet handled the plains animals you took very nicely, but it is really a light load. There is a LOT more to be had in terms of performance from this cartridge.

The 405 grain bullet is simply too light to give the kind of penetration we are looking for. A 500 grain or better bullet is needed. Something on the order of a 520 grain Govt bullet or a 540 grain Brooks Creedmoor. This provides the inertia and retained energy needed to push on through.

Also, 70 grains of 2f or 3f, especially the potent Goex Express, will provide quite a bit of additional horsepower over the 63 grain charge. Something on the order of 70 to 100 fps additional velocity over your 63 grain charge of standard powder given the same bullet weight.

The fact that you realized the good result you did shows what a potent and under rated round the 45-70 is as a game getter by some people. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Oregon Bill]

Flatwater: How important do you think the flat meplat was in contributing to the performance of your load on African game? I was kind of thinking the Lyman 457125 government bullet with the blunt round nose would be a good, traditional choice for this work in a heavier slug. I agree with Mr. B. that I think I would want at least 500 grains in a .45. I have a small stash of bth Swiss 1.5 and Goex Express FFg that I can't wait to work up loads with, but may work with a paperpatched bullet as well as a GG.

[flatwater]

Bill-
I wish I had some ability to compare the killing power of various bullet shapes on game. I don't. I have hunted 12 different properties in Africa-all in Namibia-on half a dozen different trips. Shot about 30 head with the BPCG. A few with a 40-65 and a 393 grn bullet, RN, out of a 400 grain mould. A few with a 45-90, 490 grn RN out of a custom mould for 500 grainers, and 16 with the aforementioned flat nose out of the 45-2.1.
My 45-70 load shot at 1234fps. About pistol velocity. Elmer Keith liked a flat meplat on his handgun loads. I had the good fortune to meet him a few times as he lived close to me. I guess that made me a believer. Still, the best performance I ever had was on hard 490 grainers that passed clear thru the game.
Rdnk is probably right. Bullets that exit are best. My comromise-I'm gonna get a bigger bullet, but still hard and with a flat meplat. Have ordered some 460 grainers as a start. If they dont exit at 45-70 velocities, I will try them in my 45-90....................FW Bill

[david.bergen]

I know for sure that weight is the way to go, even at handgun velocities.
When shooting my 454 Casull I get very seriously penetration with the 420 and 375 grain bullets.These bullets are very hard being water dropped wheelweights. Both have a large meplat but they seems to keep going. Velocity is in te 1250-1550 range. I also shoot a 260 swc at more then 2000ft/sec but I doesn't penetrate as good as the other two.
You just have to find the right combination between bulletweight and speed. The first being the most important