New rifle

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Chickm1
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:49 pm
Location: Texas

New rifle

Post by Chickm1 »

So, I was working a deal on an original 1874 Sharps 45-75. The owner decided not to sell. So, I am looking to buy a new rifle. SO many options here, that my head spins. I decided I wanted to stay with 45 caliber, but which one? The brass supply kinda made that decision for me. I do plan to actually use this rifle for hunting, and if I stayed with 45-70, I might as well take a sling shot to the field hunting. 45-110 brass is basically unavailable, so that leaves 45-120, which I kinda figure is going to pound me in the ground. Sights. Standard or Soule? WHat was the original style buttplate supplied on the Sporting rifles? Barrel length? What distance do you have to be shooting at, to see an advantage on a barrel over 30" What size octagon? What was the normal size octagon on the Sporting Rifle? Any bots and pieces of advice or experience, would be appreciated.
Randy Bohannon
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Location: Buffalo WY

Re: New rifle

Post by Randy Bohannon »

First of all the 45-70 is much more than a “ sling shot” I don’t know what prompted that statement, hyperbole for sure.
What was it about the original rifle that had your attention ? You could configure a new rifle the same or similar. 30” is probably the most useful length to go from hunting to silhouette or bit further ,other lengths lend them selves to one or the other hunting or competitive shooting at distance ,the 45-70 is perhaps the easiest cartridge to get to shoot well with minimal fuss finding brass and load development.
Chickm1
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:49 pm
Location: Texas

Re: New rifle

Post by Chickm1 »

I shot NRA Long Range and Across The Course with both military and bolt guns. When you compare the trajectory of the 45-70 with the center fire modern cartridges, the 45-70 trajectory reminds me of that of a sling shot.

I was interested in the original 1874, because it was an original Buffalo Rifle. Yes, it can be duplicated, but it is not an original. I like antique firearms.

I have plenty of 45-70 brass.
Tomklinger
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:00 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New rifle

Post by Tomklinger »

Chickm1
You aren’t going to get a “flat” shooting anything with black powder and a 500+ grain bullet at 12 to 1450fps. I have an original Ballard 44/100 that shoots a 530g paper patch bullet at 1350fps at the muzzle, it takes about 2 1/2 sec. to hit the target at 1000 yds. with about 85ft. center trajectory.
Smokeless bolt guns and guns designed for black powder are two different worlds.
Tom Klinger
VectorMan
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Location: NW Missouri

Re: New rifle

Post by VectorMan »

With all due respect, stating that a 45-70 is comparable to taking a slingshot is probably the dumbest statement I’ve heard on this forum. The 45-70 will not only take down any animal that you would hunt in North American but it’s also a very competitive round at 1000 yards. I emplore you to rethink your choice of words to describe one of the most popular rounds ever developed in history. After almost 150 years it’s still going strong. I can’t recall right offhand another rifle caliber that can say that today.

Like I said, with all due respect.

KA
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."
semtav
Posts: 2875
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:21 pm
Location: Montana

Re: New rifle

Post by semtav »

Chickm1 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:14 am 45-110 brass is basically unavailable, so that leaves 45-120, which I kinda figure is going to pound me in the ground.
Why do you say this ?? If you have 45-120 brass, that is easily turned into 45-110 brass.
I'd take a 45-110 over a 120 any day.
Kurt
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Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: New rifle

Post by Kurt »

The 3-1/4" case is a conversation piece at the range when you start shooting it.
I have seen several times when a new shooter comes to the range with the long shells and starts complaining about the recoil and the process starts down loading the shell to a level he feels comfortable shooting and this has turned into pipe bombs for some and a couple others that I have seen ended up with a walnut ahead of the chamber or cant extract the case because of a ring.
There was a guy not long ago at our range that just got a new ABI ? not sure that is the right name, and he showed me the rifle a shell and I asked how he loaded it and he said with a smokeless powder, don't remember which, I asked if he had a wad over the powder and he said no the wad is under the bullet, I said don't shoot those rounds but after out conversation he walked back to the 100 yard line and shot a couple rounds and all was quiet for a spell and he came walking back over and asked if he could use my cleaning rod. I asked why and he said the shell is stuck in the chamber..........

It's your rifle so order what you want.

The suggestions above are good with the .45-70, I prefer the .45-2.4 (90) and I have a .45-2.4 and I have a .45-3-1/4. I personally like the .44's over the .45's
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
bohemianway
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: New rifle

Post by bohemianway »

Why not just get one in 30-40 or 405 if hunting is the primary goal? I have a 45-120 Shiloh Business rifle (cause the owner did not know how to load it properly) and it is a blast with full loads of black powder and a 475gr GG. That said I would only recommend that if, as I did, you get it cheap. I paid $750 because no one in their right mind would order/own one. So if that trips your trigger look around and that caliber is easy to find and cheap relatively on the used market. Most are priced as a re-barreling proposition. And, for hunting, A duplex load (7gr 4759, balance back) can be very energetic if that is what you are looking for.
George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: New rifle

Post by George Babits »

There are couple of Shiloh rifles on GunBroker now that are in 45-70. One would be great for hunting with its 26 inch barrel and nice wood. If you are set on an original, there is also an original "conversion" listed as well. It is listed as a Meacham, but looks more like a late Sharps "assembled" rifle. It has been sleeved to 45-70.

Anyone who thinks hunting with a 45-70 is akin to hunting with a slingshot is severely mis-informed. I have shot everything from gophers to buffalo with my 45-70 Sharps. In fact, that is usually my "go to" rifle when hunting. My hunting load is a 420 grain flat nose bullet and a duplex load. The 45-70 is all you would ever need and I would rate it as THE best of the black powder 45 calibers. Brass and dies are easilly obtained and it won't beat you to death. Although the longer cases are impressive, anything more than 70 grains of powder is overkill for hunting; in fact, for hunting, 70 grains of powder is plenty in any of the black powder cartridges.

George
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desert deuce
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Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: New rifle

Post by desert deuce »

I am trying to imagine taking an original High Condition all original 1874 Sharps Boss Rifle in 45 2 7/8ths hunting while looking at my vintage Winchester '06 formerly of High Condition until I took it hunting over the years.

Can't get the idea to compute. :shock:
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Coltsmoke
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Location: GA.

Re: New rifle

Post by Coltsmoke »

I would suggest going to a match where these rifles are being shot and get more familiar with them before you do anything.
Normal isn't coming back, but Jesus is.
George Babits
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: New rifle

Post by George Babits »

I have a high condition Meacham 12 pound rifle in 45-70. I wouldn't take that hunting either, but that is because it weighs too much. My hunting 45-70 Sharps is an original 1874 action that had been rebarreled when I got it close to 50 years ago. It was configured as a business rifle and chambered in 45 2 7/8. I had the barrel set back, milled octagonal and then turned to half round, and rechambered to 45-70. All that work cost me $113 at the time! Did some horse trading and got it restocked too. Weighs about 9.5 pounds. I have an original Sharps "assembled" rifle in 40-70 SS. Has a great bore but far from being high condition and I wouldn't hesitate to take hunting.

George
SchuetzenDave
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Location: St. Albert, Alberta

Re: New rifle

Post by SchuetzenDave »

The Knock Down Ratings are:

.303 British 173 grains 2440 fps KD 18
.30-06 Springfield 180 grains 2750 fps KD 22
.300 Win. Mag. 200 grains 2850 fps KD 25
.45-70 Government 405 grains 1325 fps KD 35 (with BP)
.45-70 Government 500 grains 1250 fps KD 41 (with BP)

With a range finder you know the distance to the animal and if you have done a distance chart for your Soule sight you can precisely nail your animal regardless of it's sling shot trajectory.

My .40-65 1874 Shiloh Sharps consistently shot 1 MOA at 1,250 fps at 880 yards - but I knew what the Soule setting was for that distance.
pacecars
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:19 am
Location: Tallahassee, Fl

Re: New rifle

Post by pacecars »

I am assuming by your statement about the .45-70 that you have never loaded BP cartridges before. If this will be your first one I would suggest the .45-70 since all the info about it is out there and it is the most popular BP cartridge. The .45-70 in its old military loading took an awful lot of Buffalo in Trapdoors, Sharps and Rolling Blocks. I too use mine for hunting. My current favorite to hunt with is a Shiloh Business Rifle in .50-90. If you want to stay with .45 caliber the .45-70 is great. I would suggest a Shiloh Saddle Rifle with a 26 or 28 inch barrel in wait her standard weight octagon or standard weight half round (that would be my choice) and I would add the pewter tip and Hartford collar just because they are cool, and last I would upgrade to semi fancy wood. I would go with barrel sights and replace the front sight with a copper penny or one of Stephen Borud’s fine front sights
Real gun powder is black.
Chickm1
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:49 pm
Location: Texas

Re: New rifle

Post by Chickm1 »

Lol. I seem to have slapped a couple of people with the slingshot trajectory comment. The truth hurts. Hey fellas, I'm 64 years old. Bought my first muzzle loader when I was 16. I've been around the coffee cup playing with trajectories, during my lifetime. The muzzle loaders I use today are pushing a .45 bullet over 1800 fps. I have a Trapdoor Springfield Carbine, and one day I may shoot it, and if I do, the loads will be less than 1200 fps. Probably be loaded with BH209, not BP.

I started loading shotgun shells when I was 14. Metallic cartridges didn't begin until I was about 21. Never loaded BP cartridges.

I am going to get a new rifle, and not in a big hurry to make mistakes, which is why I am posting to get information. As I said, I am not overly eager to go with a 3 1/4" cartridge. Yes, I know this shells can be cut down. I need more information and ideas. One of the things that I need more info on, is the differences between such rifles as "business, sporting", and other different titles. The pistol grip is a tell-tale sign on some. Also, the buttplate choices needs more definition.

Thanks for all the info so far, and if the slingshot comment offended you, it was not intended to. It was merely a comparison of the trajectory of a slow heavy bullet, compared to a 140 gr BT bullet traveling 3000fps. No biggie
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