New .40 cal rifle

Talk with other Shiloh Sharps shooters.

Moderators: Kirk, Lucinda

George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by George Babits »

Jackrabbit - - - yup, hitting a 40" gong at 1000 yards is the same thing as making a 4" group at 100 yards, so not really a big deal on a calm day, and that's a flat nose bullet to boot. I'd have to look up to see what the load was, but it was straight black powder, maybe 60 grains of Fg. You just need a good spotter to get the sights set. Once the sights get dialed in it becomes pretty mechanical. As I said in my first reply to this thread, it all depends on what you want the rifle for. Yes, I agree that the Sharps, even the Shiloh, is a black powder rifle. The Shiloh is safe with modest black powder loads, but only with small cases. Read the sales pitch - -- factory available ammunition is what I think it says.

George
bobw
Posts: 3841
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by bobw »

George you need to explain your last 2 sentences. They don't make much sense to.me. bobw
bobw
jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by jackrabbit »

George, a 40" group at 1,000 yards and a 4" group at 100 yards are no where near the same thing. There are numerous winds that are hard to detect at long range as well as mirage becomes a much bigger player, let alone the fact that developing a load that performs well at 1,000 yards takes some effort as well. Your statements about it being no big deal and it being pretty "mechanical" show that you really have no idea what you are talking about. The odds of a 40 cal flat nose bullet and 60 grains of 1 F producing a load that will have any accuracy at 1,000 yards is pretty much ZERO. If you think I'm wrong, just come on out to a Byers or Arizona and show us all how it is done. I am prepared to be impressed.....
Cody
George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by George Babits »

Read the fine print Cody - - - I said on a calm day; ie, no wind. I looked up the load and it was 60 g of Fg and the Lyman 410655 bullet. I was doing the same thing with my 45-70 rebarreled original 1874 Sharps (1:18 twist) as well using a duplex load (so I could spend more time shooting than cleaning) and the Lyman 457193 bullet. A 40" group at 1000 yards isn't going to win any long range matches, but that wasn't the point. I don't get very hung up on theoretical computer generated numbers, I just go and try something to see if it works. The trapdoor Springfield did fine with 400 and 500 grain bullets and a 1 in 22 twist. I shoot for fun, not to win things or impress people. Try it you'll like it.

George
George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by George Babits »

bobw,

Yup, I only had one eye open when I wrote that one and my brain wasn't fully engaged yet for sure! What I meant was OK with modest smokless powder loads. I think the Shiloh warrenty says something about factory available ammunition. I almost always use black powder because it fills the case. Sometimes though I feel lazy and have some smokless loads for my Shiloh 40-70.

George
User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7633
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by Don McDowell »

pacecars wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:23 pm Thinking about a new .40 caliber rifle. Here is what I have planned so far: Sporter #1 with a 30” standard half round polished barrel, semi fancy wood, pewter tip, Hartford Collar, fire blued screws, bras escutcheons, steel butt plate and accent line on the cheek piece. I am trying to decide between the .40-70 straight or the .40-90 SBN. I know the smaller one is the more practical but my heart says go with the .40-90 SBN
The 40-70 will do well for about anything you'll be using it for.
The 40-90 will do it a bit better, but the price to pay in recoil and powder consumption will be a bit steep.
In the end probably best to follow your heart, you'll be less likely to trade, sell or rebarrel it in a few months.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by jackrabbit »

George Babits wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:03 am Read the fine print Cody - - - I said on a calm day; ie, no wind. I looked up the load and it was 60 g of Fg and the Lyman 410655 bullet. I was doing the same thing with my 45-70 rebarreled original 1874 Sharps (1:18 twist) as well using a duplex load (so I could spend more time shooting than cleaning) and the Lyman 457193 bullet. A 40" group at 1000 yards isn't going to win any long range matches, but that wasn't the point. I don't get very hung up on theoretical computer generated numbers, I just go and try something to see if it works. The trapdoor Springfield did fine with 400 and 500 grain bullets and a 1 in 22 twist. I shoot for fun, not to win things or impress people. Try it you'll like it.

George
The bullshit flag has been raised and it is really flapping in all the hot air! The 8 ring measures 44" at 1000 yards, so a 40" group would likely average something over a 9. That would equate to a 92 or 93 score, and that would win a LOT of matches, if not most of them.

Apparently you don't shoot, you just bullshit on the internet to impress people. The great joy of this forum is the truth always comes out. If you want to start touting numbers about shooting, they had better be true, otherwise you will get called out.

By the way, the same thing always happens when somebody starts posting bullshit numbers and they are challenged to come shoot a match and show us all. They cop out with some lame excuse why they don't shoot competitively. It takes guts to enter a match. Try it sometime and you will both find out how much you don't know and how fun it is.
Good luck, Cody
George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by George Babits »

Cody,

You must think that everyone shoots the way you do. I shoot an average of 4000 rounds each year. I don't think you believe anything that doesn't agree with your way of thinking. I know what I can do; or at least what I have done in the past (and with credible witnesses). I don't really much care what you think. Your problem, not mine.

George
User avatar
Don McDowell
Posts: 7633
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
Contact:

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by Don McDowell »

pacecars wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:55 pm This will be a hunting rifle
Either chamber seems to get along well with the .400360 cast 20-1 and wrapped with either SC 55w, or 55y depending on the rifles preference.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
Kenny Wasserburger
Posts: 4728
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
Location: Gillette, Wyoming

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

I had a standard wt barrel Shiloh in 40-90 BN.

It will kick the snot right out of you. It was by far the hardest kicking Bpcr I ever owned. :shock:

Go with the 40-70 SS or BN. And get it in a 14 twist. It will handle anything up to 450 grs in Bullet wt.

KW
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
jackrabbit
Posts: 1792
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Carpenter Wyoming

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by jackrabbit »

George Babits wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:51 am Cody,

You must think that everyone shoots the way you do. I shoot an average of 4000 rounds each year. I don't think you believe anything that doesn't agree with your way of thinking. I know what I can do; or at least what I have done in the past (and with credible witnesses). I don't really much care what you think. Your problem, not mine.

George
George, if I cared what you thought I would have never posted. This has nothing to do with the way I think, only what is possible and what is highly likely to be impossible. If one is going to make statements about their ability to do amazing shooting bordering on unbelievable, it must be backed up, otherwise it is just bullshit. The easiest way to prove such shooting is to do it in a match.

Anyone bragging about the amount of shooting they do in a year is unlikely to impress me. I'll just say I shoot enough to know 60 grains of 1 f behind a 410 grain Lyman flatnose bullet will not be competitive at 1,000 yards. If you think it will and don't want to prove it in a match, fine, but at least if new shooters are reading this, they will know the truth.
Have a good day,
Cody
George Babits
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by George Babits »

PM sent
User avatar
desert deuce
Posts: 3842
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:51 pm
Location: Rio Rico, Arizona

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by desert deuce »

PACECARS, I don't know whether or not you realize it but you have a wonderful opportunity here to father a landmark event in the BPCR World.

Now understand a bit of background here, I am from Florida and hunted deer, turkey and feral hog quite extensively before and after my time as a Florida Game Warden. Hunting in Florida is a close range situation as compared to Western U.S. On an average shots were more like 30 yards and I think the longest shot I ever took on a deer or turkey was about 50-60 yards. Almost always a head shot. I didn't even know what a feeder was until I moved to Texas. Baiting game was illegal. All of my hunting was free range mostly in Wildlife Management Areas.... May I suggest that you take into consideration where you are going to hunt in Florida and what you are going to hunt in deciding on a caliber. One of my associate Game Wardens did and does use a .22 Hornet quite effectively and for me the .222 Remington was perfect. A 30-30 was over kill.

However, if you are seeking to make a statement you could employ the 45 Caliber 3.25 case and recruit a barrel maker to cut you a 9.5 twist barrel, dies and reamers no problem and you should have no problem finding a mould maker to cut you a 200 grain flat nosed bullet, all depending on how far you want to go to make a statement. And it would be a one of a kind and hailed widely as your brainchild. Call it the 40 Pacecar three and a quarter. Has a ring to it doesn't it?

Now from my experience hunting Florida I would choose something like a 38-55, 40 SBN or SS and at the most a 40-65 if I was after bear and wanted to stay with a traditional black powder caliber using black powder.

See there, here on the Shiloh Forum you get saged professional advice and commentary for free. Such a deal? :D
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Coltsmoke
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:55 am
Location: GA.

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by Coltsmoke »

I agree with DD, do the 40-65, that is all you need. Easy to get reloading components. Good to shoot sillywet and mid-range. Very popular caliber if you ever need to sell it, or you can ream it out later if you like.
Normal isn't coming back, but Jesus is.
pacecars
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:19 am
Location: Tallahassee, Fl

Re: New .40 cal rifle

Post by pacecars »

I did take a deer with the .40-50 SBN so it doesn’t take a whole lot down here. Haven’t thought about the .40-65, it might make into a nice light deer gun the doesn’t knock the snot out of you
Real gun powder is black.
Post Reply