Scope choices
- JonnyV
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
- Location: Living in a van down by the river eatin’ Govt cheese
- Contact:
Scope choices
Hi All,
I was thinking on scoping a new BP rifle I have. It's a 45-90. Primary usage would be gong shoots for the next few years, then target, silhouette, gong, what-have-you will be on the menu. The rifle is drilled and tapped for bases with 7" spacing between mounts (front screw to front screw).
Question 1: What are the exact rules governing scopes in BP rifle competitions?
Question 2: What are my options? Is it worth it to consider vintage scopes? I don't want anything from china, including chinese glass. Right now, the rifle has a nice set of MVA long range sights, so I can afford to wait for the right optic to turn up.
Thanks for any help!!
I was thinking on scoping a new BP rifle I have. It's a 45-90. Primary usage would be gong shoots for the next few years, then target, silhouette, gong, what-have-you will be on the menu. The rifle is drilled and tapped for bases with 7" spacing between mounts (front screw to front screw).
Question 1: What are the exact rules governing scopes in BP rifle competitions?
Question 2: What are my options? Is it worth it to consider vintage scopes? I don't want anything from china, including chinese glass. Right now, the rifle has a nice set of MVA long range sights, so I can afford to wait for the right optic to turn up.
Thanks for any help!!
-
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:44 am
- Location: cheyenne, wy
Re: Scope choices
Either a DZ or MVA is a good choice. Matter of personal choice.
Here is what the NRA rules says:
3.4.1 Scoped Black Powder Cartridge Rifle - Identical to the description
of the BPCR (Rule 3.4) with the following exceptions:
(a) Maximum weight with scope - 15 pounds
(b) No length or power limitation on the scope. Scope tube body to be
3/4” or less in diameter and any ocular or objective lenses, adjusting
or assembly rings to be less than 1” in diameter.
(c) No Internal scope adjustments for windage or elevation.
(d) Mounts are to be of the traditional style of the period, and contain the
windage and elevation adjustments for the scope in either, or both,
the front or rear mounts. No click adjustments in the mount. Either
dove tail mounting or scope block mounting is allowed.
Original scope mounts of either the Cataract or Malcom style or
variations thereof, or replicas or derivatives of either style, are
allowed provided the replica or derivative conforms to the criteria of
paragraph (d) above.
(e) Cheek pieces may be used and may be of any height.
Here is what the NRA rules says:
3.4.1 Scoped Black Powder Cartridge Rifle - Identical to the description
of the BPCR (Rule 3.4) with the following exceptions:
(a) Maximum weight with scope - 15 pounds
(b) No length or power limitation on the scope. Scope tube body to be
3/4” or less in diameter and any ocular or objective lenses, adjusting
or assembly rings to be less than 1” in diameter.
(c) No Internal scope adjustments for windage or elevation.
(d) Mounts are to be of the traditional style of the period, and contain the
windage and elevation adjustments for the scope in either, or both,
the front or rear mounts. No click adjustments in the mount. Either
dove tail mounting or scope block mounting is allowed.
Original scope mounts of either the Cataract or Malcom style or
variations thereof, or replicas or derivatives of either style, are
allowed provided the replica or derivative conforms to the criteria of
paragraph (d) above.
(e) Cheek pieces may be used and may be of any height.
-
- Posts: 739
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 3:05 pm
- Location: Great Falls Montana
Re: Scope choices
I have a 23 inch MVA and I'm very happy with it. Also, MVA supports BPCR matches around the country. I highly recommend all MVA products.
- JonnyV
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
- Location: Living in a van down by the river eatin’ Govt cheese
- Contact:
Re: Scope choices
The DZ scopes look nice, but so do the MVA's, and I like supporting people who support the sport...does anyone know where the lenses are sourced?
-
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:09 pm
- Location: Payson Arizona
- Contact:
Re: Scope choices
For the type of shooting you're talking about, I would go with the MVA "B" series scope with the #2 mount in 4X centerless mill dot. If you're going to shoot paper at mid to long range only, I'd go with the MVA "A" scope in 10X w/#2 rear mount, win front mount.
Dennis
Dennis
Experience trumps intelligence every time.
-
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:45 pm
- Location: Western NC & WY
Re: Scope choices
The DZ scope at 7.2" is set up for your "7" spacing between mounts" and the MVA is set up for a 10.34 inch spacing between mounts and this is only for their 23 inch long scope. Their longer models require greater spacing between mounts. The DZ scope comes in 8X and the MVA scopes come in either 6X or 10X in their regular series which seems to be the most popular series for silhouette shooters. Both makers produce excellent scopes which you will be happy with. With the MVA 10X scope there is decreased ability to "gather light" so the image can be darker and some shooters are bothered by this. It is not a problem with the scope but the laws of physics say that as power is increased in a scope brightness decreases. I have both but end up using my DZ because the mounts are so good. For my old eyes, they are easier to read and to make precise elevation and windage adjustments on in the heat of a match. Note, this is also true for younger eyes.
- Luke
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 12:26 pm
- Location: Central Missouri
Re: Scope choices
Both the MVA "A" and "B" scope are set up for 7.2" spacing, with the"A" also set to use the 10.3" spacing as well. I think the B scope would be ideal for your stated purpose. Both companies are said to be completely in house production. I have both MVA scopes, both mounted on 7.2" centers, a 5x and a 10x.
Limber Up!
- Don McDowell
- Posts: 7644
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm
- Location: Ft. Laramie Wy
- Contact:
Re: Scope choices
Either the MVA B5 in the #2 mounts or the DZ scope will work with the holes already punched in your barrel, and serve well. The edge might go to the DZ in that with the right block height it will take you from almost powder burn close to 1000 yards. I do prefer the mil dot reticle of the MVA scope, and the MVA's allow for easily changing reticles.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger
-
- Posts: 2920
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
- Location: Jersey Shore
Re: Scope choices
Both MVA & DZ support our sport well.
Jim Gier, MVA, once told me his glass is sourced from a company in Denver. I've not asked Dan Zimmerman, DZ, about his. My guess is the actual glass comes either from Japan or the Czech Republic, two major sources of ED glass, and is polished and coated in the USA.
As for choice of scope, you can't go wrong with either MVA or DZ. Both of the highest quality. I use MVA as I prefer their centerless mil-dot reticle.
Do be aware that the higher the power the less light transmission you will have. The 10x scope is noticeably less bright than the 6x scope. Simply a matter of physics.
Glenn
- JonnyV
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:52 pm
- Location: Living in a van down by the river eatin’ Govt cheese
- Contact:
Re: Scope choices
MVA got back to me and informed that their lenses are from a company called Photonics. Fitne it in the internet and they seem pretty legit. Not exactly a scope company, but the do manufacture lenses for various applications such as IR, lasers, so forth. This would seem to be a pretty high quality source for glass.
-
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:00 pm
Re: Scope choices
i have a m v a 6 x scope with sil.. mounts its 15 + years old is repeatable and a pleasure to use it will go out to 800 yds with a 45/70 you can't go wrong art
-
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:00 pm
Re: Scope choices
i have a m v a 6 x scope with sil.. mounts its 15 + years old is repeatable and a pleasure to use it will go out to 800 yds with a 45/70 you can't go wrong art
-
- Posts: 2774
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:16 pm
Re: Scope choices
I have a few different MVA scopes and a couple of DZ Arms scopes. Both make very good quality scopes.
I greatly prefer the centerless mil dot reticle in the the MVA scopes ( DZ is a plain cross hair, a bit thicker than the MVA ). For silhouette the mil dots are a big advantage when holding off. For target rifle I'm more likely to turn the knobs so don't hold off much.
My favorite of my scopes is a 6x 23" MVA with DZ Arms mounts. Not the cheapest way to go, but you get Unertl style mounts with tons of elevation.
Since you are on 7" ( or maybe 7.2"? ) spacing already then you have a few options.
1. MVA B5. I don't like mine as much as my other MVA scopes. My reticle eventually comes loose on heavy recoiling rifles so it lives on a schuetzen bench gun now. Other than that it's a very nice scope and a perfect copy of the originals.
2. MVA A series scope with the B5 mounts. I've got one of these on order. A friend has one and it's very good. Much like my 23" MVA scope but it can also work on the 7.2" spacing due to the longer Pope rib. Probably the most flexible setup. I might end up getting DZ mounts for mine.
3. DZ Arms 8x. Very nice setup with tons of elevation. The mounts are Posa which I like a lot. The only thing I'd want to change about these scopes is to have a reticle the same as the MVA centerless mildot.
If I had to pick one, it would definitely be the new MVA A series.
Chris.
I greatly prefer the centerless mil dot reticle in the the MVA scopes ( DZ is a plain cross hair, a bit thicker than the MVA ). For silhouette the mil dots are a big advantage when holding off. For target rifle I'm more likely to turn the knobs so don't hold off much.
My favorite of my scopes is a 6x 23" MVA with DZ Arms mounts. Not the cheapest way to go, but you get Unertl style mounts with tons of elevation.
Since you are on 7" ( or maybe 7.2"? ) spacing already then you have a few options.
1. MVA B5. I don't like mine as much as my other MVA scopes. My reticle eventually comes loose on heavy recoiling rifles so it lives on a schuetzen bench gun now. Other than that it's a very nice scope and a perfect copy of the originals.
2. MVA A series scope with the B5 mounts. I've got one of these on order. A friend has one and it's very good. Much like my 23" MVA scope but it can also work on the 7.2" spacing due to the longer Pope rib. Probably the most flexible setup. I might end up getting DZ mounts for mine.
3. DZ Arms 8x. Very nice setup with tons of elevation. The mounts are Posa which I like a lot. The only thing I'd want to change about these scopes is to have a reticle the same as the MVA centerless mildot.
If I had to pick one, it would definitely be the new MVA A series.
Chris.
- Luke
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 12:26 pm
- Location: Central Missouri
Re: Scope choices
Fwiw I've had a B5 on an 11.5 lb fast twist 50-70 for a couple of years now, loading 1.3" 630 grain bullets, and have had no reticle problems. Have you talked to MVA of this?
Limber Up!
-
- Posts: 2774
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:16 pm
Re: Scope choices
No I haven't. The funny part is, this year I mentioned it to a friend of mine and he also said he had no problems. Shortly after that it happened to him . It might be because the reticle leveling screw is pretty tiny so I don't crank it too tight.
I wanted to put the scope onto my schuetzen rifle anyway. It's an 1885 Winchester that Steven Durren built for me and it suits the rifle more than it does my Shiloh silhouette rifle.
Chris.