Why Borchardt ?

TYRVR · Post by **TYRVR** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:30 pm

I see that Kirk responded to a query about Shiloh marketing a Borchardt actioned rifle in the future. I am aware that this was a good action and an improvement in some respects to the '74 style rifle. My thoughts are why is it needed? Shiloh has a product now that is pre-sold for months and in some cases years ahead, the introduction of the Borchardt means that in all liklihood the lag time from sale/order to delivery will only increase. I am neither collector nor purist, just a shooter, rifles are meant to be shot, it would vex me to know I can't shoot my rifle because it is buried in a pile of orders for rifles that are being bought for no reason other than being a representative specimen in some collection somewhere. I know, my attitude is selfish, but as long as there are people waiting 9-10 months for delivery of a current produced model, doesn't introducing ANOTHER model seem un-necessary?

Ol'Tye,

Smokin · Post by **Smokin** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:28 pm

Ol'Tye,

At the risk of offending the moderators of this forum and those who are also building a rifle for me (might as well use the fell swoop approach), I agree that it seems unnecessary. While most of my local matches only allow falling block rifles of the type made until 1896, generally the Stevens 44 1/2 is allowed by exception, all rifles used must have external hammers. It is the reason why the Ruger No. 1 is not allowed. Although it is a fine, strong falling block action, it cannot be used because its hammer is concealed. The Borchardt, while introduced in 1878, doesn't even have a hammer; it is striker fired. So up here on the soon to be frozen tundra, those who wish to use a Borchardt can come to the matches to show off their fine rifles to the oohs and aahs of all, but will be asked to shoot them elsewhere. Taping a ball pein to the fore end - not accepted.

Perhaps Shiloh is looking to satisfy another part of the market, or to anticipate where the market will be in the future. One can't fault people for trying to do what is good for business. By the way, just how does one fit double set triggers to a Borchardt? Bruce

Kenny Wasserburger · Post by **Kenny Wasserburger** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:06 pm

The Borchardt is legal in NRA Long Range and mid range matches. And is legal for all of the World Sanctioned Long Range events. Thats a lot of shooters.

And a good many LR shooters are looking forward to having one for that very purpose. Mine will be in 45-110 just like the one the Original Sharps Rifle company built for Frank Hyde for him in compete with. Shiloh is looking to expand their market is all.

And when Shiloh makes a Borchardt, I am pretty sure more then a few folks will begin to question the wisdom of those that allowed that striker action Miller Farrow to be allowed in Silhouette. Perhaps a Real 1878 action will be allowed to compete against that made up thing, that is not a real Farrow. After All the Borchardt has the boni fides to compete that Miller does not!

I am on the list for a Borchardt and will be looking forward to it.

I also have a Business rifle in the works right now, No I dont wory and I dont think you guys need too eather.

Kenny Wasserburger

Kelley O.Roos · Post by **Kelley O.Roos** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:34 pm

Ol'Tye:

Lets ask the question the other way,why shouldn't Shiloh have another product line? All good business's expand, Shiloh is good for the economy, they will employ more craftsman who in turn will make a living and support familys, buy goods, which will make manufactures, manufacture their products and all this will generate more local tax's and support the local economy. I think Shiloh is building, for the most part, a custom rifle and that takes time. I've had High-Walls built by my best friend with encouragement from me, meaning I'm looking over his shoulder trying to learn somthing,

And it's taken 6 months or better for each rifle and no I wouldn't sale any of those rifles he's built. With all that said, have you ever called Meacham and asked him what his wait is? Or how about Axtel,that guy in New Mexico and Idaho who is building Borchardts and maybe just maybe Ballard Rifle Co. There's been companys that have taken money for rifle orders and folded taking the money with them.

Me, I'm thinking about ordering a Borchardt from shiloh. The only thing that has a faster lock time then a Borchardt is a stricker action High-Wall, maybe thats my next project

Kelley O.

Parley Baer · Post by **Parley Baer** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:35 pm

Al Story of Silver City, New Mexico has a 1 year wait on his Borchardt's. I was in his shop this past summer and his least expensive Borchardt is around $2600 at this time. However it includes a pistol grip stock, extra fancy walnut and the one I saw had checkering. Round barrels standard with $175 for full octagon and $150 for half octagon. So that gives Kirk an idea of what the competition is up to. Also a blued receiver. Al Story stated that he will chamber the Borchardt for a great variety of calibers. Parley

TYRVR · Post by **TYRVR** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:24 pm

That seems to be the impression I made with my comments about the planned production of Borchardt actioned rifles, not true! I love Shiloh and their CURRENT product. I don't wish the company to inhibit it's future growth, .... don't even mind them making the Borchardt, I am just curious about why Shiloh would start a new product line when there is so much demand and wait for the current product. I have seen some other companies (like Colt) that neglected the product that built the company and went down to receivership in short order. Kirk and the others that run Shiloh will do what they think best for the company, I only hope that they will also do what is best for the folks that buy their products. I don't want to have my Grand Son buy his "Sharps" style rifle from some guy named Giuseppe.

Ol'Tye,

Kelley O.Roos · Post by **Kelley O.Roos** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:07 pm

Hey,

Wasn't that Giuseppe fella the one who invent ponokeio

Kelley O.

MLV · Post by **MLV** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:11 am

I say forget the Borchardt. Let's have a Shiloh Rolling Block!!!! Just kidding. Don't nobody go getting their feathers ruffled. I would like to have a Shiloh Rolling Block though.

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:45 am

MLV, I would order one today, a Shiloh Rolling Block that is. In fact, Kirk if you're watching you can just go ahead and put me down for one. Consider this an order for one each Shiloh Rolling Block, 50-70.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:23 pm

I guess I am just the proverbial "Stick In The Mud". That's what my wife says anyway. But I still think that the model 1874 Sharps action is most beautiful design ever. With the 1877 Sharps fairly close behind it.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:27 pm

And another thing. My .45/90 Hartford is on the floor. Let us not be distracting poor Kirk with these irrelevant notions while he is busy.

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:36 pm

I also consider the '74 sharps the most beautiful of them all, but I really like the simple elegance of the rolling block. I have seen parts of the Shiloh Borchardt and it is a beauty!!

wolfie · Post by **wolfie** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:13 pm

i want them all Borchardt a Rolling Block a High wall a Low wall a Sharps1877.o crap back to realty

my wife says i am lucky to have my 1874

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:11 pm

Wolfie,

I like your attitude. That is really the only sensible way to look at it. Have them all.

Oh, by the way. Your signature line. Where were you hiding? You must have been watching me walk around in order for you to come up with a signature line like that,

because that is a perfect description of me.

wolfie · Post by **wolfie** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:28 pm

hey lee my pop always said the key to a happy marriage was selective hearing now i have the memory to go with it,i need those brain cells back that i lost in school

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Why Borchardt ?

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