Stock Style advantages and disadvantages

[Texas Shooter]

To all, I invite your opinions and/or ramblings:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of the different stock styles offered by Shiloh?

Cheekpiece vs. no cheekpiece

pistolgrip vs. straight grip

Shotgun buttplate vs. Crescent Buttplate

Drop in the buttplate on #1 sporter vs. Drop in the buttplate of the Hartford

The Fancy Grade Sporting Rifle seen in, "Sharps Firearms" by Frank Sellers.(page 228 at the bottom) appears to be a Hartford? with all the beautiful trimmings. In my humble opinion it is a work of art. However, Is it a case of form over function, for all intents and purposes neat to look at, but not that great a gun to actually shoot? (For those without the benefit of the book, it looks like a hartford model with a crescent buttstock an ebony pistol grip, heavy full octogon barrel, 30-34 inchs long)

What would it's limitations be for the average shooter?
What would it excel at?
What activity would you not choose that rifle for?
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The Sporter #1 looks to be one of the easiest to shoot well. Wide Buttplate, Pistol Grip, Check Piece, High Head position.

What would it's limitations be for the average shooter?
What would it excel at?
What activity would you not choose that rifle for?
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Activities to consider for each are, Target Shooting, Hunting, BPCR competition, Plinking. ????

Thanks ahead of time for the responces, I look for to your opinions and insight. (I'm always amazed at the knowledge)

Thanks, Texas Shooter

FWIW: In my experience, "One of each is always the easiest way to make a tough choice."

[Omaha Poke]

Texas, I own 3 rifles with cheek pieces and 4 w/o. I don't notice that much difference while shooting them.

I have 3 rifles with pistol grip stocks, a Ballard with the ball and spur lever which for me acts like a pistol grip, and 3 straight grip rifles. For me the advantage of the pistol grip is that it puts you hand in a more convenient postion for manipulation of the set triggers. 6 of my rifles have the double set triggers and one is a single trigger. This can be especially realized when shooting from offhand or prone. For me it doesn't seem to matter quite as much from sitting over cross sticks.

The shotgun butt plate, I have two crescent and 5 shotgun. With heavy, long range loads, the crescent can be a real shoulder beater especially in prone position. I wish my two crescent butt plates were shotgun style!!

I can't comment on the drop on the Sporter vs the Hartford because I don't own either of them.

I have large hands and that may influence my preferences. Someone with small hands might have an entirely different point of view.

I have found that a live rubber, slip on butt pad called the Shooters Friend makes the crescent butt a lot more user friendly.

Hope this helps, Randy

[Badger]

I have to agree with Omaho Poke. I can't say that a cheekpiece really makes much difference to me although I like the looks of them. I have a No 1 Sporter and a No 3 both with shotgun butts. I do prefer the pistol grip of the No 1 as it just seems to feel better and give more control in the hands but I do not really regret buying the No 3. The shotgun butt is a must for me. I own several muzzleloaders with crescent buttplates and they can get your attention especially with full charged loads.

[RichBratlee]

I have to agree with you guys--as for me--I like the crescent butt and don't mind the recoil -- in my 45-70--I have shot my buddies 45-110 with the crescent and have found it to be a real punisher when prone and s/or shooting a long string--FWIW--for me anything bigger than a 45-70 it gets a shotgun butt!!!

[geronimo.tn]

Anybody out there have a Saddle rifle stock and what do you think about it??

[ffffgdave@yahoo.com]

i wish i had a pistol grip on my sharps.. but a shnabble or whatever its called would be fine, but a pain to get after the fact and expensive.. i like the looks of the strait stock better tho.. put pistol grip is nice when accuracy is utmost.. dave

[geronimo.tn]

Dave
thanks for the reply.
I know what you mean, I like the appearrance of the straight grips and have some original rolling blocks that are that way, however the pistol grip feels great.
Trying to get up the funds to order the first (only?) Shiloh and can't decide on the stock style.
sweet agony eh??

[Omaha Poke]

Geronimo, go with the one that feels the most comfortable to you while in your normal shooting position/s. If you don't have access to an 1874 Sharps, go to a local match and I am sure that as nice and accomodating as all these guys are they will let you hold and possibly even shoot their rifles. I know the guys here in WA. would. Get the one you like the feel of the best, and you won't regret it later. Randy

[geronimo.tn]

Omaha
Already done that.
pistol grip feels best just looks to contemporary.
straight stock looks best to me but has advantage that I can slide my hand position rearward to adjust finger position on the trigger.
maybe I should just toss a coin.

[Trigger Dr]

Geronimo,
Get the standard straight stock, and add-on the ebony pistol grip. then you have the best of both worlds, and can remove the pistol grip when the mood strikes.
trigger dr

[geronimo.tn]

I've been reading the discussions on stock style for some time now and here's my observations.

1. there are those fortunate people who own both types and love each.

2. there are owners with straight grip stocks that like the way they look
and accomodate their shooting style to them

3. there are owners with straight stocks who openly wish they had ordered
the pistol grip or wish for the add on grip

4. I have yet to observe a post from an owner with a pistol grip who
wishes they had ordered a straight stock instead of a pistol grip.

so, if one likes the looks of the straight stock, order it and learn to like it
or order the pistol grip (probably won't be any regrets)

anybody know of a commerically made bolt action rifle made with a
straight stock???? I don't think so. Why is that?? Probably because the
pistol grips serves a functional purpose.

So, what will I probably order??? Hey, you can't buy a straight grip rifle at Wal-Mart.

So, where did I put that flippin coin??

[Bumper]

Off-hand shooting with the pistol grip is much more comfortable for me. For sitting or prone shooting the straight stock is ok but since we have to shoot off-hand I prefer using the pistol style grip. My friends Sharps has double set triggers and a straight stock that seems awkward to me after using my RB or High-Wall but once I get my hand positioned correctly and concentrate on sight picture the targets will go if I've done my part. None of my rifles have a set trigger and are set up for a 1 1/2 > 2lb wt (again its just personal preference).

[nohorse]

I have owned quite a few Sharps models over the years and most of them have been straight stocked military styles, just because I like the look. These were fine for hunting and occasional plinking but when I started shooting mid range and silhouette the military butt plate just wore me out. Even with a recoil shield. I mean at times, even with a 45-70 it was just bruising.

When I finally decided on a gun for target work I bought the NO. 1, which includes the pistol grip stock, shotgun butt, and the cheek piece. [For hunting I bought a Hartford model which as you know retains the straight military stock. Like I said, I just like the look!] But I can tell you from shooting both extensively; the NO. 1 is my sweetheart. Best shooter I ever owned with minimal recoil using this stock design. The shotgun butt really does a lot to spread the recoil over a broader impact area and that makes a real difference to me. I also get a better hold from offhand and sitting cross sticks positions with the pistol grip stock. With a magnum recoil shield and a Shiloh shooting shirt with the built in recoil pad, I don't even feel the recoil [really!]. That does a lot for eliminating flinch and allows me to really concentrate on my hold and proper breathing. It is really a pleasure to shoot.

As far as the cheek piece goes, to me it makes a difference. When I shoot the Hartford it seems like recoil to the cheek is much more brutal and shocking, but then again, the NO. 1 stock design may be relieving some of this too.

Due to some health limitations I went with the design I thought would provide minimal impact and stress for long shot strings and target work. The NO.1 completely filled the bill. If I didn't have a son to pass it along to I would stipulate in my will that it be buried with me! Like the Egyptians, if I had something to carry over in to the "after life", that would be it.

We all have our opinions, personal preferences, and things that work best for each of us.....Keep us posted on what you decide.

[Texas Shooter]

Dear nohorse:

For me, I think the best solution is:

A Hartford with the ebony pistol grip, crescent butstock, 45-70, 30 inch barrel, heavy octagon, in addition to all the other goodies Shiloh offers. I REALLY like the way the rifle looks in this configuration. This rifle would be used for hunting. I know recoil with this little beast with be "Lively", but the very few shots I make while hunting will not have a bad effect on shot placement. At this time I'm using a 1895 winchester in .405 wcf. It's only about a 6-7 pound rifle. It hasn't bothered me so far.

For Targets which I do a lot of and maybe some matches later:

A #1 Sporter with the same barrel and caliber. This should be good for long strings, load developement, plinking and so on.

Later on if they make one, a Borchardt would be really nice to own.

I sent a email to Shiloh about a Borchardt. Is there a specific place or person to send this to, to get on the "List"?

I think this would be a very good, "start" for all needs and "looks".

Any thoughts?

-Texas Shooter

BTW: Lone Star Arms makes a nice looking Rolling Block. Are they any good? Hows the service etc.? Same questions about Axtell's "1877"

BTW #2: Someone needs to notify Shiloh that Axtell has swiped, "Lucinda's Trigger", for thier 1877 model.