annealing bullets

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stepnmud
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:06 pm
Location: Spring Branch ,Tx

annealing bullets

Post by stepnmud »

I seem to remember a formula for annealing lead bullets for the purpose of velosities of 1400fps and more or just plain hard lead bullets.
Anyhow I've had a 200ct. of Mid-Ks. bullets 405gr. flatnose with smokeless lube just being dead weight for the past several years and tonite I cooked them in the oven at 200 degrees on a cookie sheet with newspaper for a pan liner and too help wick off the wax lube. Took approx. 10 minutes, maybe less. No oven fires or smelling up the house, just easy as pie :)
Now I can pan lube 'em with my 50/50 mixed beeswax and crisco lube.
I'll give these a try this coming weekend at the range for performance with my normal blackpowder loads.
I'm thinking yer susposed to drop the bullets in tap water immediately after removing from the oven to get the hardest bullet. However the Mid-Ks. bullets are already pretty hard.
stepnmud
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:06 pm
Location: Spring Branch ,Tx

Post by stepnmud »

Meant to add these are .458 dia., for my 45-70
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Omaha Poke
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Post by Omaha Poke »

stepnmud, are you shooting BP or smokeless? If you are shooting BP I don't know of anyone who shoots BP for competition or hunting either who wants to harden their bullets.

Most shooters who want to harden their lead alloy bullets do it one of several ways:

1. add antimony and/or tin to their alloy
2. water drop directly from the mould into a bucket of cold water. Heating the bullets to just 200 degrees wont do it. The temp of the lead bullets has to be at the point at which they will start to slump if heated to a higher temp.
3. Addition of arsenic, if I remember correctly, will aid in the hardening process.

4. alloying linotype to wheel weights, not the stick on type, will add antimony, tin and if not mistaken arsenic.

The only reason to try to harden your bullets is if you wish to shoot cast bullets at velocities in excess of those achieved by using BP or moderate smokeless loads. ie, trying to work up a load for a .458 Win Mag., or a Ruger #1 in .45-70 with a hot smokeless load.

With the increase in velocity and cast bullets, you will also generally notice an increase in leading. It is kind of paradoxical, to me anyway, but the harder lead bullets, lead the bore more than softer lead. At least at BP velocities. There are some variables such as wads, etc., but I think this can generally be considered true.

200 degrees in the oven, and then pouring your melted lube in the pan is not going to harden the bullets, it is just going to warm them so that the lube fills and sticks to the grooves.

There will probably be some more posts on this subject and some of them may be more knowledgeable than I am so read and digest them all. Hope this helps, Randy
Randy Ruwe
stepnmud
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Location: Spring Branch ,Tx

Post by stepnmud »

Thanks fer yer response Omaha Poke. I'm using blackpowder only loads and gave up on that smokeless stuff several years ago :) although in looking back on my records, this same 405 gr. bullet performed nicely at one and two hundred yards with 45grs. of IMR 3031 around 1700fps, in a 45-70 Uberti hiwall with a 30" tube, but do remember having some leading in the bore. That's part of the reason I like using blackpowder loads in my cas guns, cause there ain't no leading. I reckon I'm just thinking about using these flatnose 405's in the same rifle for some pig hunting or whitetail and gonna try a dozen or so blackpowder loads at the range and see how they do on paper. I really don't need 1700fps with heavy bullets for hunting WT or pig. Thanks again.
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Lee Stone
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Post by Lee Stone »

Stepnmud;

Hard bullets don't bump up and seal the bore. Thus the hot gases can escape around the base of the bullet causing gas cutting. So you end up with traces of molten lead and therefor leading of your bore. Soft bullets bump up, sealing the bore and thus prevent gas cutting. Greatly reducing if not eliminating leading. And any leading that does occur is cause by friction and is much easier to remove than the melted on leading. And of course good lube helps to reduce if not eliminate that.
Lee Stone
Jerry Williams
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Location: Iowa City, IA.

Post by Jerry Williams »

Stepnmud, Once upon a time I think I tried what you are trying. Best advice I can give is listen to Lee and Omaha and forget about shooting hard cast bullets with BP. These bullets will not carry enough lube and will usually lead for the reasons they stated. The best advice I can give you is to get a mold and cast your own bullets (40/1 is a good mix, especially for hunting), or buy the bullets already cast (Buffalo Arms is a good choice). Lyman makes a good 420 gr. mold that holds enough lube. It is a flat nose bullet and very good for hunting. The sooner you give up on hard cast bullets the sooner you will be on your way to better results with BPCR. Good Luck to ya!
Everything I know about BPRC I have forgotten at least three times, Now I write it down. Have you seen my note book?
Bonanza Driver
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Post by Bonanza Driver »

Stepnmud:

I am new to BPCR but have been re-loading smokeless (gasp!) and casting for some time. The rule of thumb I learned was that plain-base lead bullets were suitable for muzzle velocities up to about 1,400-1,500 fps. If higher velocities are anticipated, the use of brass gas checks are strongly recommended to reduce the leading caused by the vaporization of the lead bullet base by the (extra) hot powder gasses. We always figured that a full-load .44 mag (245g Keith #429421 over 21g 2400) was right at the limit at just over 1450fps.

This would account for your IMR3031 leading problem since, at 1,700fps, it represents a lot "hotter" load than the 1,200 - 1,400fps that I understand is more commonly seen when 'real' powder is used.

Hope this helps,
Steve
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