It seems to me that in the shooting sports world we bpcr shooter's are a pretty rare thing. I know there are more than there used to be . I'm new to it too. And there's a big crowd at the Nationals but go to most any traditional gun shop and mention black powder cartridge and you'll get looks and comments of indifference. Where I work there are quite a few shooters/hunters but I'm the only bpcr shooter, in fact I've met several people that shoot alot that don't even know cartridges were loaded with black powder, thinking it's only for muzzleloader's.
I finally saw a hunting show tonite that featured a singleshot (Uberti Highwall) which was a nice change of pace from the variable power scoped inline sabot firing "primitive weapons" they normally use. They used smokeless rounds with jacketed bullets and that's fine but the point is they couldn't use black powder either. Probably no doubt because there isn't enough of a customer base to make it worth their while since most hunting shows are pretty much an advertisement for the latest gadget.
On one hand it sucks that there's not many people to talk to about one of your hobbies. On the other hand this rarity is kinda neat since you feel you're doing something out of the ordinary and unique. Also, it's why this site in particular and ones like it in general are great. What's the thought on this.
bpcr shooter's are rare
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
Pete,
I am going to have to disagree with you about how rare the BPCR shooters are. This sport ( BPCR) be it long range, mid range, creedmore or Silhouette is the fastest growing of all of the shooting sports with the exception of Cowboy Action. The shooters of BPCR are Unique though. They are for the most part free with there information and help. Break a part on your rifle at ANY shoot and sit back and watch what happens. People with tools and spare parts will come out of the wood work to help you. But this is something of a paradox at the same time, you will not find these folks at the local gun shop, or at most places that retail firearms. And you are correct the people that hang out and shop at those places don't usually have a clue as to what they are missing. But you do have plenty of folks to talk to about this great sport. you will just have do it here on the net and at matches for BPCR. Thanks to Shiloh, Goex and a couple os web-sites over on MSN that deal only with BPCR there are plenty of people to talk to about this game. Keep asking your questions somebody always has an answer, sometimes it's even the right answer.
Gunny
I am going to have to disagree with you about how rare the BPCR shooters are. This sport ( BPCR) be it long range, mid range, creedmore or Silhouette is the fastest growing of all of the shooting sports with the exception of Cowboy Action. The shooters of BPCR are Unique though. They are for the most part free with there information and help. Break a part on your rifle at ANY shoot and sit back and watch what happens. People with tools and spare parts will come out of the wood work to help you. But this is something of a paradox at the same time, you will not find these folks at the local gun shop, or at most places that retail firearms. And you are correct the people that hang out and shop at those places don't usually have a clue as to what they are missing. But you do have plenty of folks to talk to about this great sport. you will just have do it here on the net and at matches for BPCR. Thanks to Shiloh, Goex and a couple os web-sites over on MSN that deal only with BPCR there are plenty of people to talk to about this game. Keep asking your questions somebody always has an answer, sometimes it's even the right answer.
Gunny
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Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
Gunny, I have to agree with you in part, and disagree with you in another part. It depends a lot on where you live that this is the second fastest growing shooting sport. Here in Washington St. we feel lucky if we have 15-16 shooters show up for a match. And we have some very fun matches!! In MT, WY, CA, and a number of other states the number of competitors that show up are awesome, to us anyway. The turnout at your shoots may not seem large, but we would love to have the turnout that you do in CA.
It is not that we don't try to get more shooters, it is just that BPCR hasn't caught on here that much, and also the fact that we just don't have the long range facilities that you do.
I don't know where Pete lives, but he may have the same conditions that we have here in western WA. If I had the money, I would put in a range of my own, where we could shoot. As it is, we are lucky to be able to shoot out to 500 yds at paper targets on a once a month basis.
Randy
It is not that we don't try to get more shooters, it is just that BPCR hasn't caught on here that much, and also the fact that we just don't have the long range facilities that you do.
I don't know where Pete lives, but he may have the same conditions that we have here in western WA. If I had the money, I would put in a range of my own, where we could shoot. As it is, we are lucky to be able to shoot out to 500 yds at paper targets on a once a month basis.
Randy
Randy Ruwe
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Kelley O.Roos
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:02 am
Omaha Poke,
I'm in agreement with Gunny. Maybe there are more B.P. shooters then you think in your area. I know Oregon has quite a few shooters. Here in California there is alot, granted. Alot of guys here and else were just don't travel to other ranges to shoot. This weekend is the annual BBQ shoot in Bishop, Friday is a silhouette hunter match, Saturday is regular silhouette and Sunday a lever gun match, now that makes it worth while going and shooting. I'm shooting everything except the lever gun match. From what I understand this will more then likely be one of the biggest BBQ matches yet and have 4 relays. Some matches here only get 12 to 15 shooters. I don't hang out in gun shops or even bother to tell guys in those shops when I do go about single shot B.P. rifles, as sometimes the sales people and some customers are just to dumb to figure out what I try and explain to them about our sport.
Kelley O.
I'm in agreement with Gunny. Maybe there are more B.P. shooters then you think in your area. I know Oregon has quite a few shooters. Here in California there is alot, granted. Alot of guys here and else were just don't travel to other ranges to shoot. This weekend is the annual BBQ shoot in Bishop, Friday is a silhouette hunter match, Saturday is regular silhouette and Sunday a lever gun match, now that makes it worth while going and shooting. I'm shooting everything except the lever gun match. From what I understand this will more then likely be one of the biggest BBQ matches yet and have 4 relays. Some matches here only get 12 to 15 shooters. I don't hang out in gun shops or even bother to tell guys in those shops when I do go about single shot B.P. rifles, as sometimes the sales people and some customers are just to dumb to figure out what I try and explain to them about our sport.
Kelley O.
Kelley O.Roos
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Trigger Dr
- Posts: 1944
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:10 pm
- Location: Pacific North WET (Port Orchard)
FOR THE WASHINGTON SHOOTERS ON THIS FORUM and anyone else who has the same type activity in their area.
Every year our Washington Arms Collectors puts on a [b][i][u]LEGISLATIVE SHOOTOUT[/u][/i][/b][i][u] and invites the legislators and general public to participate. Maybe if we, as a group, were to do the same type activity, we could educate a few people and get our closet BPCR shooters involved.
let's think about it maybe we would be surprised..
trigger Dr[/u][/i]
Every year our Washington Arms Collectors puts on a [b][i][u]LEGISLATIVE SHOOTOUT[/u][/i][/b][i][u] and invites the legislators and general public to participate. Maybe if we, as a group, were to do the same type activity, we could educate a few people and get our closet BPCR shooters involved.
let's think about it maybe we would be surprised..
trigger Dr[/u][/i]
Direct ALL e-Mail to jimrmilner@juno.com
NRA LIFE MEMBER
LIMBSAVER® BPCR Team
Prospective Member BPCR Federation
NRA LIFE MEMBER
LIMBSAVER® BPCR Team
Prospective Member BPCR Federation
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MLV
- Posts: 3710
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:21 pm
- Location: Livingston, MT
- Contact:
What it takes for BPCR shooting to grow in an area is someone(s) with enthusiasm and patience to start pushing it and MAKE it grow. I started putting on the first BPCR Silhouette matches in Montana in 1988 and that first year we had a maximum of 8 shooters at a match. I was discouraged at that. One thing that helped was that the next year we allowed people to shoot both smokeless powder and jacketed bullets, but just didn't count their attendance when making the report to the NRA. Those guys said they didn't want to be bothered with the fuss and muss of bp, but when they saw how easy it could be and also saw that they weren't going to win with smokeless powder and/or jacketed bullets they one and all converted to bp shooting.
Then things kicked in and now Montana is one of the country's hot spots for BPCR shooting. In warm weather we can shoot a match every weekend with a reasonable drive. Missoula is an exceptional treat in that on most warm weather weekends we can shoot silhouette on Saturday and then Long Range on Sunday. By the way many of the regular shooters there come from western WA state. The same things happened in CA, PA, TX, AZ, etc. It just takes SOMEONE to take the reins and make it happen.
Another thing to take note of is how much the regular gun industry has been dragged (usually kicking and screaming) into producing some things for the BPCR shooter. RCBS, SAECO, and Lyman now all have off the shelf molds. Lyman and Hornady have bp powder measures. Redding makes us competition type seating dies. Lyman has a full line of regular priced BPCR dies. And so forth. Believe me, those companies make market studies before they introduce anything, and they wouldn't bring out BPCR items if there wasn't a sizeable marketplace.
The reason you don't see many of us in most gun stores is that they have virtually nothing in them for us. They have shelves full of Rugers, Remingtons, Glocks, and so forth, and personally speaking my eyes glaze over when they see stainless steel and synthetic stocks. Besides, how many of you have wandered into one or another gun store and been absolutely amazed by the ignorance of the guys behind the counter. Once in a while you run into a good one but quite often they are firearms dunces, especially in regards to actually shooting something. The same goes for gun shows.
Another factor to consider is this. Twenty years ago you could buy a Shiloh and that was about it for rifles, and Wolfgang and crew had to work hard to keep their heads above water. Now look at the market place. Now you can not only buy Shilohs, but other brands and models of Sharps, Rolling Blocks, several High Walls, Ballards, and pretty soon a Shiloh Borchardt.
I'd say that BPCR Shooters are making themselves pretty well known in the gun world. And I really should be working instead of writing all this.
Thanks for listening.
Then things kicked in and now Montana is one of the country's hot spots for BPCR shooting. In warm weather we can shoot a match every weekend with a reasonable drive. Missoula is an exceptional treat in that on most warm weather weekends we can shoot silhouette on Saturday and then Long Range on Sunday. By the way many of the regular shooters there come from western WA state. The same things happened in CA, PA, TX, AZ, etc. It just takes SOMEONE to take the reins and make it happen.
Another thing to take note of is how much the regular gun industry has been dragged (usually kicking and screaming) into producing some things for the BPCR shooter. RCBS, SAECO, and Lyman now all have off the shelf molds. Lyman and Hornady have bp powder measures. Redding makes us competition type seating dies. Lyman has a full line of regular priced BPCR dies. And so forth. Believe me, those companies make market studies before they introduce anything, and they wouldn't bring out BPCR items if there wasn't a sizeable marketplace.
The reason you don't see many of us in most gun stores is that they have virtually nothing in them for us. They have shelves full of Rugers, Remingtons, Glocks, and so forth, and personally speaking my eyes glaze over when they see stainless steel and synthetic stocks. Besides, how many of you have wandered into one or another gun store and been absolutely amazed by the ignorance of the guys behind the counter. Once in a while you run into a good one but quite often they are firearms dunces, especially in regards to actually shooting something. The same goes for gun shows.
Another factor to consider is this. Twenty years ago you could buy a Shiloh and that was about it for rifles, and Wolfgang and crew had to work hard to keep their heads above water. Now look at the market place. Now you can not only buy Shilohs, but other brands and models of Sharps, Rolling Blocks, several High Walls, Ballards, and pretty soon a Shiloh Borchardt.
I'd say that BPCR Shooters are making themselves pretty well known in the gun world. And I really should be working instead of writing all this.
Thanks for listening.
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Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
MLV, you are lucky in MT. You have any number of great long range facilities scattered all across the state to shoot at, WY and a fair number of other states also have this type of access. I don't know of one range (other than Ft Lewis) in western WA that is longer than 500 yds, and the last I looked, the Army ain't allowin civilians use of their ranges!!
Most rifle ranges around here only go out to 100 -200 yds. Thats why when I go to Kenny Wasserbergers WY, shoot or the Quigley, I try to show up at least a couple of days early just in order to get sighted in for the match. If we had better facilities, we would probably have more matches, and better turnouts at them.
I intend to try and make more matches in MT this coming summer, but it ain't easy when you have to drive 700-800 miles one way to get to a one or two day shoot.
It would be really great if some one from each state could post a listing of matches for the coming year on this great Shiloh web-site. It would make it easier to plan how to make it to the matches.
Location, Location, Location!!! I believe that is what the guy planing to open a new store has in his mind as being of primary importance, and as far as promoting BPCR it is just as true. Randy
Most rifle ranges around here only go out to 100 -200 yds. Thats why when I go to Kenny Wasserbergers WY, shoot or the Quigley, I try to show up at least a couple of days early just in order to get sighted in for the match. If we had better facilities, we would probably have more matches, and better turnouts at them.
I intend to try and make more matches in MT this coming summer, but it ain't easy when you have to drive 700-800 miles one way to get to a one or two day shoot.
It would be really great if some one from each state could post a listing of matches for the coming year on this great Shiloh web-site. It would make it easier to plan how to make it to the matches.
Location, Location, Location!!! I believe that is what the guy planing to open a new store has in his mind as being of primary importance, and as far as promoting BPCR it is just as true. Randy
Randy Ruwe
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Delizar
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:14 pm
- Location: Southern California
Ranges in Washington
I did a bit of looking on the NRA website for ranges in Washington State.
Here are two that look promising.
University Place - Tacoma Rifle & Revolver Club, 8503 Chamber Creek Road West, University Place, WA 98464.
Phone: 253-566-1341
Facilities include: Outdoor Pistol (25 & 50 yds), Outdoor Rifle (25-600 yds), Airgun
Range Access: Private
Web Site: www.tacomarifle.org
Email: shooter@tacomarifle.org
Puyallup - Paul Bunyan Rifle & Sportsman's Club, 17902 Meridian Ave E, Puyallup, WA 98375.
Phone: 253-847-7893
Facilities include: Indoor Pistol (to 50 yds), Outdoor Rifle (to 600 yds), Indoor Rifle (50 ft), Pistol Silhouette, Muzzleloading, Trap
Range Access: Private
Email: BSEditor@aol.com
Both are about 50 miles from Edmund WA
Here are two that look promising.
University Place - Tacoma Rifle & Revolver Club, 8503 Chamber Creek Road West, University Place, WA 98464.
Phone: 253-566-1341
Facilities include: Outdoor Pistol (25 & 50 yds), Outdoor Rifle (25-600 yds), Airgun
Range Access: Private
Web Site: www.tacomarifle.org
Email: shooter@tacomarifle.org
Puyallup - Paul Bunyan Rifle & Sportsman's Club, 17902 Meridian Ave E, Puyallup, WA 98375.
Phone: 253-847-7893
Facilities include: Indoor Pistol (to 50 yds), Outdoor Rifle (to 600 yds), Indoor Rifle (50 ft), Pistol Silhouette, Muzzleloading, Trap
Range Access: Private
Email: BSEditor@aol.com
Both are about 50 miles from Edmund WA
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
Randy,
It is true that in some parts of the country there may not be a silhouette range, or a place CLOSE by to shoot. Having said that all of the shooters of this sport have to decide for themselves how much is too much. How much work is too much work to have a place to shoot? How far is too far to drive to shoot a silhouette match?
To answer the first of those questions. How much work is too much work? Well if you ask Kenny Wasserburger and his dad they would say. "There is not too much work" Kenny carved out a long range shooting facility on his own place, but in hundred of hours of work, and probably uncounted amounts of money. He did this so that he could but on a shoot from time to time. And so that all of us would and do have ANOTHER place to shoot. Butch Ulsher has done a tremendous amount of work on the Butte MT range, Harold Iskewitch spends almost all of his time working and building on his facility in Pala Ca. Now some of these folks like Harold do it for the money as much as any other reason, but they do it. Kenny Wasserburger I would doubt has ever made a penny on any of the shoots he puts on, Kenny does it for the love of the sport. And also because Karen would kill the little SOB if she caught him in a bar. Ain't that right little Brother?
Where I am going with this is YOU may need to get out and do a little work. Approach some of the ranges listed above tell them what you want to do. I am sure that they won't turn there knoses up at a little extra money every month. Put a deal together, present it to the powers that be, and be willing to put in a little sweat equity and you will have a place to shoot. You do that and I will drive down to LA and kidnap Kelley O and then drive up to WY and snatch Kenny Wasserburger and all three of us will come to your first shoot, and I don't care how far it is. I once drove 2400 miles to a little cow pasture in Mexia Tx. for the first "Cyper Shoot". If you are not familiar with this shoot let me tell you about it.
Last year Dan T. one of the posters over on the old Shooters.com site had a arguement going almost weekly about how superior the 35 and 38 calibers where in BPCR. This started a hell of a conversation about big bore vs small bore, I must admit that I am the one that stirred this pot into something of a frenzy. There where some big bore guys that thought that some of the smaller calibers, one in paticuliar the 35-55 Maynard should be banned from this sport. And as a matter of fact that did happen and the 35-55 Maynard is NOT legal for BPCR Silhouette. Almost all of the big bore guys also felt that these small calibers where inferior to the bigger 45's. My feelings where also that they where not as good in trying conditions as the bigger 45's, but I damn sure wasn't afraid of shooting against those mouse guns any time any place. And I thought that it was silly not to let these poor misguided souls shoot there itty bitty guns. Hell I thought the where inferior too, why would I mind if some yahoo wanted to shoot what I considered a caliber that put him at a disadvantage? This arguement went on for a couple of weeks, and some of the Texas shooters decided to prove which was best "Big Bore" vs "Small Bore" at there monthly match at Mexia. Now you must understand that this is a small little Silhouette range carved out of a working cow pasture, as a matter of fact from time to time during a shoot, a cease fir must be called to chase the cows off of the shooting lanes. There regular attendance is usually around 12 or 14 shooters, it is a small match. I thought that since I had got all of this mess started and Dan T. was the big proponet of the mouse gun that we should attend as well. Well partner that started something. I posted on Shooters.com that Dan and I would be making this 2400 mile drive across country just to prove that I was right about the superior shooting ability of the mighty 45 while Dan T would be upholding the honor of the 35 caliber what ever. Guy's started signing up right and left at the shoot there where shooters from 7 states. There wasn't a Motel room to be had in Mexia Tx on that weekend. We had about 35 or 40 shooters and we had a hell of a time. The "Big Bore" did in fact hold the honors at the end but it really wasn't about that at all. It was about the people that make up this sport getting together and having a good time. They again had this shoot this year, I am told that David Barnes the match director cut the number off at 60 shooters this year, and I believe that it was full.
So what I am saying if you really want a place to shoot there in WA go out and put a little effort into getting one. It can be done. Remember if you say you can or you say you can't ---- Your Right!!
Gunny
It is true that in some parts of the country there may not be a silhouette range, or a place CLOSE by to shoot. Having said that all of the shooters of this sport have to decide for themselves how much is too much. How much work is too much work to have a place to shoot? How far is too far to drive to shoot a silhouette match?
To answer the first of those questions. How much work is too much work? Well if you ask Kenny Wasserburger and his dad they would say. "There is not too much work" Kenny carved out a long range shooting facility on his own place, but in hundred of hours of work, and probably uncounted amounts of money. He did this so that he could but on a shoot from time to time. And so that all of us would and do have ANOTHER place to shoot. Butch Ulsher has done a tremendous amount of work on the Butte MT range, Harold Iskewitch spends almost all of his time working and building on his facility in Pala Ca. Now some of these folks like Harold do it for the money as much as any other reason, but they do it. Kenny Wasserburger I would doubt has ever made a penny on any of the shoots he puts on, Kenny does it for the love of the sport. And also because Karen would kill the little SOB if she caught him in a bar. Ain't that right little Brother?
Where I am going with this is YOU may need to get out and do a little work. Approach some of the ranges listed above tell them what you want to do. I am sure that they won't turn there knoses up at a little extra money every month. Put a deal together, present it to the powers that be, and be willing to put in a little sweat equity and you will have a place to shoot. You do that and I will drive down to LA and kidnap Kelley O and then drive up to WY and snatch Kenny Wasserburger and all three of us will come to your first shoot, and I don't care how far it is. I once drove 2400 miles to a little cow pasture in Mexia Tx. for the first "Cyper Shoot". If you are not familiar with this shoot let me tell you about it.
Last year Dan T. one of the posters over on the old Shooters.com site had a arguement going almost weekly about how superior the 35 and 38 calibers where in BPCR. This started a hell of a conversation about big bore vs small bore, I must admit that I am the one that stirred this pot into something of a frenzy. There where some big bore guys that thought that some of the smaller calibers, one in paticuliar the 35-55 Maynard should be banned from this sport. And as a matter of fact that did happen and the 35-55 Maynard is NOT legal for BPCR Silhouette. Almost all of the big bore guys also felt that these small calibers where inferior to the bigger 45's. My feelings where also that they where not as good in trying conditions as the bigger 45's, but I damn sure wasn't afraid of shooting against those mouse guns any time any place. And I thought that it was silly not to let these poor misguided souls shoot there itty bitty guns. Hell I thought the where inferior too, why would I mind if some yahoo wanted to shoot what I considered a caliber that put him at a disadvantage? This arguement went on for a couple of weeks, and some of the Texas shooters decided to prove which was best "Big Bore" vs "Small Bore" at there monthly match at Mexia. Now you must understand that this is a small little Silhouette range carved out of a working cow pasture, as a matter of fact from time to time during a shoot, a cease fir must be called to chase the cows off of the shooting lanes. There regular attendance is usually around 12 or 14 shooters, it is a small match. I thought that since I had got all of this mess started and Dan T. was the big proponet of the mouse gun that we should attend as well. Well partner that started something. I posted on Shooters.com that Dan and I would be making this 2400 mile drive across country just to prove that I was right about the superior shooting ability of the mighty 45 while Dan T would be upholding the honor of the 35 caliber what ever. Guy's started signing up right and left at the shoot there where shooters from 7 states. There wasn't a Motel room to be had in Mexia Tx on that weekend. We had about 35 or 40 shooters and we had a hell of a time. The "Big Bore" did in fact hold the honors at the end but it really wasn't about that at all. It was about the people that make up this sport getting together and having a good time. They again had this shoot this year, I am told that David Barnes the match director cut the number off at 60 shooters this year, and I believe that it was full.
So what I am saying if you really want a place to shoot there in WA go out and put a little effort into getting one. It can be done. Remember if you say you can or you say you can't ---- Your Right!!
Gunny
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Lee Stone
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:27 pm
- Location: Lacombe, Louisiana, USA
- Contact:
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MLV
- Posts: 3710
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:21 pm
- Location: Livingston, MT
- Contact:
What Gunny says about diving into things is right. When I moved to Livingston the silhouette range was defunct. No one had used it for years. I attended a club meeting and told them what I had in mind and they said, "You bet." We fixed it up and got matches going. I ran them for 10 years and put on the first five Montana State Championships before I turned it over to others and turned into a face in the crowd.
As for traveling, I've heard that the TN crowd get people all the way down from IN for their matches, and up from further south. We regularly go to Powell WY for their one day matches. Its 175 miles each way. Butch Ulsher usually comes and joins up with me. That adds another 110 miles each way for him.
What I think is fun to watch is how some people show up for matches and don't know much about what they are doing. They get their plows cleaned but good. Then they bog their heads and go to work and get real good. Two BPCR National Champions, Steve Brooks and Dave Gruhler, come to mind. They both started here at Livingston and weren't in the running their first year. Now look at them.
Anyway, I'm glad I found this sport and later Long Range.
As for traveling, I've heard that the TN crowd get people all the way down from IN for their matches, and up from further south. We regularly go to Powell WY for their one day matches. Its 175 miles each way. Butch Ulsher usually comes and joins up with me. That adds another 110 miles each way for him.
What I think is fun to watch is how some people show up for matches and don't know much about what they are doing. They get their plows cleaned but good. Then they bog their heads and go to work and get real good. Two BPCR National Champions, Steve Brooks and Dave Gruhler, come to mind. They both started here at Livingston and weren't in the running their first year. Now look at them.
Anyway, I'm glad I found this sport and later Long Range.
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Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
Gunny, I appreciate your post, and it is not a matter of work or not having approached different ranges about the possibility of holding matches at their facilities. Believe me, it has been done. As far as traveling goes, I put over 10,000 miles on my 1988 Ford Van this summer and fall just in out of state matches, and in one sucessful hunt in ND. I ani't afraid of driving!!! If I had a father who owns several thousand acres of land and were able to make a range, I would!!! As a matter of fact I have been looking very hard at different ranch/land sites in several different States for possible purchase, just so my grandkids will someday have a decent place to shoot the rifles that I intend to leave them.
I am not a rich person, but I think that for my grandkids to be able to shoot one day, they will have to have a place where no one can tell them that they can't shoot there. That is one reason that I am looking for some good land. The other reason is so that I can go somewhere to shoot for the same reason and that whosoever wished may also come and shoot, as long as they are respectful of the priviledge of being able to do so.
I have great respect for people like Al Lee and Kenny Wasserburger, who have helped preserve what is in my oppinion our shooting heritage, and who promote the sport of shooting Black Powder Cartridge Rifles. Our own Steve Anderson at the Machias, WA range does a tremendous amount of work to inhance and promote the sport.
The whole thing around here is (in a nutshell) you would have to be a millionaire to be able to purchase enough land to have a decent BPCR course set up, and even more to pay the taxes on the land.
Kenny's range as well as Al Lee's range have been in the family for years, and I for one am happy that there are still generations of land owners that can do what they wish with their land. If I were one of them, believe me, I would do exactly the same thing.
Thanks again for your input. I hope to be able to make your Dec, Pala shoot. Jim Eggelston told me to come there when we shot the Quigley as a team. BTW we came in second even tho no one posts this on any of the sites. Jim is a kick to shoot with, a great spotter, and great conversationalist. I just wish he would voice an oppinion once in a while :shock: Thanks again, Randy
I am not a rich person, but I think that for my grandkids to be able to shoot one day, they will have to have a place where no one can tell them that they can't shoot there. That is one reason that I am looking for some good land. The other reason is so that I can go somewhere to shoot for the same reason and that whosoever wished may also come and shoot, as long as they are respectful of the priviledge of being able to do so.
I have great respect for people like Al Lee and Kenny Wasserburger, who have helped preserve what is in my oppinion our shooting heritage, and who promote the sport of shooting Black Powder Cartridge Rifles. Our own Steve Anderson at the Machias, WA range does a tremendous amount of work to inhance and promote the sport.
The whole thing around here is (in a nutshell) you would have to be a millionaire to be able to purchase enough land to have a decent BPCR course set up, and even more to pay the taxes on the land.
Kenny's range as well as Al Lee's range have been in the family for years, and I for one am happy that there are still generations of land owners that can do what they wish with their land. If I were one of them, believe me, I would do exactly the same thing.
Thanks again for your input. I hope to be able to make your Dec, Pala shoot. Jim Eggelston told me to come there when we shot the Quigley as a team. BTW we came in second even tho no one posts this on any of the sites. Jim is a kick to shoot with, a great spotter, and great conversationalist. I just wish he would voice an oppinion once in a while :shock: Thanks again, Randy
Randy Ruwe
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
Randy,
I'm not going to beat you up over this, when and if it becomes important enough to you it will be done. Until that day you are always welcome here in CA I am the match director at Avenal match, come and shoot with us some day.
There is one comment you made that I would like to speak to though. You said "I am not a rich man". I can not leave this alone. Some of the richest people I know are BPCR shooters, they have a wealth that is beyond belief. Kenny Wasserburgr, Mike Venturino, Kirk and all of the folks at Shiloh, Jim Grier, Kelley Roos, Kenny Durham, Butch Ulsher and so many more that I can not count, and oh yea I must add myself to that list the Gunny and he the Gunny that is may just be the richest of all of these folks I named, because I have the priviledge to call these folks friends. Yea these are some of the richest folks I have ever known, rich in ways that most will just dream about. And the funny thing about there wealth is MONEY does not have one damn thing to do with it.
Gunny
I'm not going to beat you up over this, when and if it becomes important enough to you it will be done. Until that day you are always welcome here in CA I am the match director at Avenal match, come and shoot with us some day.
There is one comment you made that I would like to speak to though. You said "I am not a rich man". I can not leave this alone. Some of the richest people I know are BPCR shooters, they have a wealth that is beyond belief. Kenny Wasserburgr, Mike Venturino, Kirk and all of the folks at Shiloh, Jim Grier, Kelley Roos, Kenny Durham, Butch Ulsher and so many more that I can not count, and oh yea I must add myself to that list the Gunny and he the Gunny that is may just be the richest of all of these folks I named, because I have the priviledge to call these folks friends. Yea these are some of the richest folks I have ever known, rich in ways that most will just dream about. And the funny thing about there wealth is MONEY does not have one damn thing to do with it.
Gunny
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Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
Randy,
I should leave that last smart ass remark alone but I won't. Boy I'm not trying to sell you anything, and I don't give a damn what or if you buy or do anytime. You where the one saying that there was no place to shoot in WA I was just trying to show you a way to maybe make something good happen. If you are not smart enough to figure that out no wonder you complain instead of getting off your ass and finding something or somewhere. Any body can set back and say oh there this reason why i can't find a place to shoot or there's this reason. The lands cost too much or the ranges have so much money they don't need us. There are always those few who see the glass as half empty i guess you are one of those. If you never fire another shot I could care less and once again if you thought I was trying to sell you anything well.
Kirk,
Sorry about that I just lost my temper.
Gunny
I should leave that last smart ass remark alone but I won't. Boy I'm not trying to sell you anything, and I don't give a damn what or if you buy or do anytime. You where the one saying that there was no place to shoot in WA I was just trying to show you a way to maybe make something good happen. If you are not smart enough to figure that out no wonder you complain instead of getting off your ass and finding something or somewhere. Any body can set back and say oh there this reason why i can't find a place to shoot or there's this reason. The lands cost too much or the ranges have so much money they don't need us. There are always those few who see the glass as half empty i guess you are one of those. If you never fire another shot I could care less and once again if you thought I was trying to sell you anything well.
Kirk,
Sorry about that I just lost my temper.
Gunny