bpcr shooter's are rare

[Canoe112]

Hey Guys,

There is a 780 acre island off the coast of Victoria BC for sale complete with a Jack Nicklaus golf course.

Why don't we all pitch in and buy it.

Take out the damn golf course and put in a range.

Canoe

[nohorse]

Not trying to add some sense of reason to the recent melee I’ll just chip in my 2 cents worth. All of you are right in one sense…we are a unique breed. We prize tradition and friendship and carry on methods and techniques handed down or in some instances lost and re-found. For some of us it is a hobby, for others it is an extension of our knowing we were born in the wrong century. Regardless of your personal driving force, those of us that pass on these traditions are indeed unique. For we all realize that the casting, compression, powders, etc, may indeed be a dying art if it were not for our efforts and our willingness to pass the knowledge on.

The perspective regarding the breadth of our hobby and companions depends on your perspective. If you limit the scope to those that shoot midrange and/or silhouette the numbers may indeed be few. Add in those that use these weapons for hunting and the numbers may increase slightly. Throw in the numbers of SASS members that retain these weapons for what they call side matches and you may be surprised at how the numbers significantly increase. Now I am not promoting SASS here so don’t read something into this that is not there. Yes, I am a paying member but due to health limitations am unable to compete. I do know, from the few matches I have attended, SASS members have done a lot to perpetuate our sport even if the ranges they shoot may at times be more limited. The point I am trying to make is we all contribute in our own way to expanding the knowledge base and prosperity of the sport.

There may not be enough demand in a localized area to provide an incentive for your local gun shop to stock the items we typically use so we rely on specialized dealers such as Shiloh, Buffalo Arms, MVA, black powder retailers and so on. That is part of being a member of such a unique assemblage of weapons and personalities. Personally I find great satisfaction in knowing that I may be, at any given time, the only person in my town breaking down and cleaning a Sharps rifle or reloading a BPCR cartridge. Do I actively support the sport? You bet! I talk it up every chance I get. I loan cartridges to new prospects. I am training my son so he may carry on the art of BPCR. Is there a BPCR Range in my city, regretfully no. However, like most of you there are some ranges if you are willing to make the drive. What is the future of this sport? I don’t know but based on the growth since the mid -70s it would be a safe bet that it will significantly increase and as it does the innovators will seek out ways to band together open more ranges in convenient locations. [Particularly if Tom Selleck would make another sequel!! That one movie did a lot for us by relating to the generally uneducated public masses the mystique and potential of these weapons].

Now say what ya want, and regardless of what group you may find yourself in, there is nothing else in this world like laying a Sharps over a set of cross sticks and cranking out a BPCR round. That first round: The way it sounds, smokes and shakes the ground. It is pure power unleashed and impressive every time I see it and do it. To simply sit in a field, with good shooting conditions, and watch the smoke hang in the air……there’s nothing else like it. Regardless whether you are shooting by yourself, with a friend or on the range with 20 – 30 shooters, there is simply nothing else like it in the world.

My hand is extended to each of you for these efforts and the camaraderie.

[Frank]

Gunny,
I think "how bad do you want something" has a lot to do with it, and you are right in saying "if you want it go after it." I live in Calif. about 12 miles from the Folsom Shooting Club in Sloughouse, Ca. They hold many state champion ship shoots in BPCR, Long Range and other shoots . It is one of the best ranges in Calif. My point is that my daughter and her husband have a ranch that has a natural box canyon that we are putting a 1000 yard range in and have been working on for about three years moving brush and oaks to clear the range. So far we use it to sight rifles in up to 200 yards. My grandson loves to go with us to shoot and knows some day we will have it done and he will have my Shiloh and many other guns to shoot on our range. It has been slow and does take some money and a lot of hard work but dam it we want it so we will get it done.
You guys keep up the good work and keep the post coming, they help push this old retired guy and help a lot.

Frank Costa

[Omaha Poke]

Gunny, I don't know what got your dander up, but there was certainly no offense intended in my comments. I was merely trying to convey that you were preaching to the choir so to speak, and no I am not accusing you of being a minister! You have no idea what I have attempted to do or not do in regards to promoting the BPCR shooting sport.

If you will recall the original post by Pete was that in his locality BPCR shooters were rare. I agreed with him and made the simple comment that there were far fewer places to shoot BPCR here in WA ST than in other States. FACT not fiction. I totally agree with you and others that nothing can be accomplished without effort. Your comment about sitting on my behind and doing nothing was totally uncalled for and out of line on an informational forum of this quality. As far as complaining, I don't recall complaining. One of my comments may have done some good. The one about people from different States posting a list of matches. If you check the announcement forum , Steve Anderson of WA state posted the 2004 match schedule for Machias. How about you getting off your____ and doing the same for Calif.??

Anyway, sorry you took offense where none was intended, I am however going to send you a bag of candy and see if we can't sweeten you up just a tad. Randy

[MLV]

Gunny: You're horns are showing..... You got to quit biting those rattlesnakes!

[nohorse]

Omaha: For those you that have never experienced life with a Gunnery Seargent.....Its nothing personal....its their genetics.........but you can count on 'em in a pinch!!

[Ted Kramer]

Gunny made me realize that I'm pretty "rich" too. My neighbor, two miles from here as the crow flys, has the Quigley range replicated pretty well (except for the wind he says!) on the terraces on his farm. He's given me a standing invitation to come and shoot whenever I get the time and urge. Believe me, the urge is always there, just can't seem to find enough time.

These guys are correct in that if you want it bad enough, it'll happen. For the past six Septembers, a friend and I have put on a levergun silhouette match on a little range I carved out of an oak covered hillside on my farm. First year we had about 8-10 shooters, second year around 15, and now we have to limit the thing to an "invitation only" deal so we can handle the crowd. This past Sept 27, we had 25 competitors and roughly 40 hearty apetites lined up at the buffet at noon. People come from 150 miles away to shoot it. Some of them tell me they have no place to shoot without having to pay to do it and all they want to do is leave here with a bunch of empty brass. Never hear any complaints.

I am also working on getting a BPCR range in place. My neighbor with the "Q" setup is not too anxious to have a bunch over to shoot, and it's his land/insurance, so that decision is totally his. My problem is that I have no flat spot that will accomodate a 500m range, so up to now we have used the silhouettes from the levergun range and have shot them out to 310 yards, rams being 23" long and 14" tall. I hope to turn the range around so it faces north and will be able to get about 400m that way, then I'll cut out some properly scaled silhouettes for that range.

Another thing that is gaining popularity in MN is the long range 22rimfire silhouette game. I attended two matches this summer put on by a friend who has a range set up near Morris, MN. What a hoot! After the first match I got one of Lee Shavers 22 adapters for my Sharps and it's for sure a good way to practice the offhand part.

So, I think there are a lot of opportunities for shooting bpcr just waiting to be discovered. Thanks for reminding me Gunny. Hope I didn't bore you.

Ted

[pete]

Don't hit me guy's I'm just gonna try and squeeze in here ok? :) Ok, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "rare". I mean we're not endangered or anything but if you take the whole shooting population as a whole, and I'm not just talking competitive shooting here I think bpcr shooter's make up a small percentage. nohorse you're right cowboy shooter's add to the number (Oh and that was a great post by the way) but even the cowboy shoots seem to have a small % that shoot black powder.

There's a good silhouette shoot up in Denver every month so there's some activity in the state and I shot there once with my rollingblock. Now that I have my Shiloh I'll be going alot more. The point I was trying to make is that it's been my experience that you don't run into bpcr shooter's very often in day to day living. I have however run into plenty of shotgunner's both hunters and clay bird shooters, highpower rifle shooter's, modern pistol shooter's and just plain people with modern type guns of all sorts that just might have them sitting around the house. Bpcr is another story at least in my experience.

MLV; I agree with you about the gun shop personell but even the good one's around here don't know bpcr and the reason I believe that is is because there isn't enough of a demand for them to. You're in a unique situation there in the center of the universe of bpcr. I have liked old west history and it's guns for a long time and your articles have been great to read over the years. I still have the May 1994 Shooting Times about the comparison between your original Sharps conversion and your Shiloh. It just took me until recently to get things staightened out enough to afford my own Shiloh. You no doubt can take alot of credit in making bpcr as popular as it is.

I hear people saying that when they're at the range and they fire their Sharps, Rem. rollingblock etc. with bp that they draw a crowd. If it were a common thing to experience they wouldn't be so curious. I do completely agree that it's getting more popular and if bpcr get's alot more popular that's great if not I'll do it anyway. Ok I'm just gonna ease out now. :D

[Omaha Poke]

Pete, that was a very astute post! I agree with you that MLV and quite a few others are in the center of the universe so to speak of BPCR shooting. I am sure that they got there through a lot of hard work and perserverance, and they deserve all the credit that we can give them for being pioneers and inovators. I appreciate their efforts very much.

Your comment about drawing a crowd at the range when firing a BPCR type rifle, is also right on track, and I have it happen on a regular basis at 2 different ranges that I practice at. Some of the more interested people, let take a shot or two.

If you ever want to come up to WA St to shoot, just let me know and I will have Gunny stop and pick you up on the way!! :D :lol: :shock: , Just joking Gunny. You would both be welcome here though!!!!

Thanks again Pete. Randy

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Guys,
Seen my old moniker mentioned more then a bit in this topic so heres my take on this subject.

BPCR shooters are not so much a rare breed. But for lack of a better word we are a Unique one. We love these old rifles and what makes them tic. We love the history, the lore and the skill with which these rifles demand to make them perform.

Gunny pretty much has little brother pegged. I do this for the love of the sport yes. And for the friends I have in this sport. Sides if I spent that much on beer and whiskey, Karen would not have to kill me it would! I feel duty bound to share my knowledge (little that it is) with others and to widen the circle of that knowledge.

Rifle shooting is a religion almost with me has been since I was young. Read About the Creedmoor matches as a youngster visting the neighbors and reading the American rifleman of the 60's and 70's. NRA Highpower never quite fit my taste for Shooting, although I had some fun with it. Karen pointed out that this game much more suited me and she was right in that respect. She knew she was in for a ride when on our Honeymoon in 1991 I ordered my first Shiloh.

When the time came, I did pretty much what I have done all my life if I want something I just do it. So I built a range, am damm glad that I did build it cause just like in the movie, If you build it they will come.

I do condsider myself rich in many ways, tonight I have visted with a great friend in Australia and Tx and places around the country. Life dont get much better then that.

Ranges are alot of work, I know and as Gunny pointed out lots of hrs of work. But My dad did and does help alot, he is the one that really made the range possible because he let me build it. He did most of the dirt work and I did most of the rest, and its been a very worth while project.

When it comes to traveling I put on a mile or two for matches, last month I drove to Missoula to shoot a long range match that was 600 miles for a weekend match one way! 1200 miles total. Lucky that I could stop in Big Timber on the way up, but heck thats 300 miles from my door too. We drove 1400 miles one way to shoot at Pala and thats a great trip. We love to go and see our best friends, Kelley-Dick H- Gunny and many many others.

Just think on this, we live in a nation of riflemen and have the freedoms to build a range and let anyone of our friends come and vist and shoot. Thats a rare rare thing in this day and age.

So take care my friends and Am looking forward to seeing you all at my match next spring.


Kenny Wasserburger

[Kelley O.Roos]

Omaha Poke,

Been gone so I'm just catching up, this is a neat subject. I'm going to agree with Gunny, you were whinning about no places to shoot B.P. and Gunny pointed out how a few guys got places going so we B.P. shooters could shoot, it's called time and effort. Gunny left out something and its the reason he's a match director. Gunny's best friend, his shooting partner, got off his duff and found a place to shoot in lower central California called Avenal. Don Rogers was that man, now Don didn't have to, except he saw a need and filled it, Don's home allows him to shoot in three different place's, Sacramento, Pala and Bishop, so he didn't have to start up another place except he did. Well Don up and died on us all, so Gunny took over as match director to keep the place up and running. Here's another story of someone who had a need of a place to shoot, Jerry Vanwey of Bishop, he wanted a range to shoot for all the local guys that can't afford to travel to matches and started the Bishop B.P. Silhouette range and now the rest is history for Bishop and it's one of the better places to shoot. Those were examples, just as Gunny gave you, except in a different way. Oh and by the way those guys aren't rich and managed to start shoots with out a great deal of money out lay and they have gotten any money out of pocket back and in a short period of time. I can give you more examples.

You told Gunny to get off his duff and post were all the shoots are, well if you'd get off your duff and bothered to read any of the good publications they will tell you were all the shoots are. I'm not a fruit seller and could care less about apples or oranges.

Hey, M.V. my fangs showing Does throwing aluminum foil at Gunny count, I hit him to

Kelley O.

[Omaha Poke]

Kelly and Gunny, so far both of you have made personal attacks on me. You have accused me of whinning, complaining, sitting on my butt, letting others do the work, not reading quality publications, and the list goes on.

You have pointed out all the people you know who have set up ranges. Many of these people already had access to their own land or to an existing range. Neither of you has told us about the range that you personally set up and got running. Kelly, you said that another person, Mr Don Rogers set up a range of his own, but then unfortunately died. Gunny then took over as match director. That was a good thing, however how did Gunny help to make this range or any other range come into being? For that matter, what have you done to make a range out of a piece of landscape?

Western WA is not the California desert!! Large tracts of land are not easy to come by even if you had the money. Zoning laws and liberals don't want people like us to be able to shoot. Ranges are continually under fire from people who moved next to the range knowing that it was a place for people like you and I to go to shoot. That doesn't deter them, they try to get the range shut down. Maybe one of you two expert setter-uppers could come up here and show me what to do and how to do it.

Both of you seem to be very subjective about which part of someone's post that you choose to read and respond to. Personally, I don't go in for character assasination, especially of someone that I have never met, you both obviously do!

Read Steve Andersons's post under the announcement forum and you will see that he not only posts the date of the match, but what form the match will be and the number of rounds requiered.

You should only use your fangs out of necessity, not out of ignorance of someone, their sincerity, their dedication, or their apptitude.

I told Gunny I would send him some candy to sweeten him up, send me your addresses, and I will send you both some cheese and crackers to go with YOUR WHINE! Randy

[Kelley O.Roos]

RANDY,

It wasn't us who was whining, we're not whining just pointing out the error's of your ways,you brought it up and now look who's has the hurt feelings and is on the attack. You called me ignorant, go look into a mirror, now go reread my post. We don't need to start any ranges it was done for us and we weren't the one's complaining,as I remember you are. Large tracts of land, lets see, how about the area out towards the Dalles, or just maybe the Moses Lake area. By the way Bud, the ranges here were existing and the B.P. programs added by a few, excepting one, Pala and the land is leased and some shooters got some money together to form a program. I don't know why I'm telling you as you don't seem to GET IT. It's not about us, so suck on your own candy and save some postage.

Kelley O.

[Gunny]

Poke,

You know there is a place where we can take this little conversation and not bother those folks here on the Shiloh site. This is a commercial site and sooner rather than later Kirk is going to get enoough of this and shut this post and this topic down. I was man enough to apologize to Kirk when I lost my temper, I was wrong not for losing my temper but for using this forum to try and talk to some idiot that is never going to understand in the first place. I set up my own board over on MSN, it is not a commercial site and was set up with NO rules so that when these little pissing contest got started you could say what you wantd with out reprisials from the person running the board. Over there thats me. Over here it's Kirk this is his board and Shiloh doesn't need this. So come over and lets get this out of our systems.

Gunny

http://groups.msn.com/BlackPowderSilhouette/homepage

[Kelley O.Roos]

Amen to that, what Gunny said.

My appoligizes to Kirk for getting carried away.

Kelley O.