Glock43 whoas

[desert deuce]

Extending what Lumpy said about 20' from an assailant armed with a knife.

This applies to action overcomes reaction observations. Use a timer and see how this works in mock up.
The assailant is in action and moving toward you beginning at 21'. What is your reaction time? It is a combination of recognizing the threat, assessing the threat and reacting to the threat.

Use a medium soft rubber knife, chalk it up with pool cue chalk or hop scotch chalk for the assailant.

Load handgun with only primer in case, works best with revolver for victim. Have not tried with pistol.


Start with handgun in concealed carried mode. Both start at the buzzer on the timer. See what happens. Timer should stop when primer goes off.

Check for chalk on victim.

[mdeland]

Boy, that doesn't bode well for my aversion to carrying with one up the spout, does it!
I have seen one self defense video that teaches to flop down on your back while pulling the weapon with both feet up to fend off the assailant but I think I would prefer backing up rather than going to ground.

[Lumpy Grits]

When you need a gun-YOU NEED THE GUN NOW!
If you don't whan a chambered round in a semi-auto. Use a revolver.........
Do you think LEO's carry their semi-autos with a clear chamber? They don't-Guess why.....
The 1911 I carry(on me now)is 'condition 1', that is cocked and locked.
Why do you feel you will only face one BG and not multiple?
Gary

[Woody]

As a former LEO firearms instructor, I set up a 21 foot reactionary target. The target would move in a straight line to the Deputy and pass by their right shoulder. I brought the Deputies onto the range, one at a time so the rest could not observe. The only instruction given was you may engage the target when it moves. Not a single Deputy was able to engage the target prior to it reaching them. Most of these Deputies were excellent shots and several had completed a Gunsite LEO course. Not a single individual managed to get a shot off. I then brought them together to discuss what had just happened and how to survive an attack at this range or even closer. The answer is obvious. MOVE. Two steps backward and or to the side as the draw and presentation is made allows the extra time needed to engage the attacker while still in front of you. We then repeated the situation, and each was then able to engage and make hits on the target while it was still in front. You will only be as good as you train.

Woody

[mdeland]

Oh I suppose we some times get fear notions with no rational reason for their existence. I have no qualms about carrying a revolver fully loaded but for some reason the Glock bothers me to carry one in the chamber and the gun was designed to be used that way safely.
Mostly it's just not being used to concealed carry of a semi and concern over having an AD which happens more often than one would expect with any brand of pistol.
I've been quietly asking a few friends who have been shooting most or all their lives and most have had hand gun AD's in one form or another. Some are reticent to admit to it but the majority confess to it when asked honestly in private. From what I read and see on the internet it is rather amazing to me how often it occurs to professional people as well.
Gun shows are particularly bad about hand gun muzzles covering people routinely. I always notice this and it bugs the crap out of me.
Many concealed holsters muzzle cover a portion of our anatomy and an AD would be, at the least, very painful.
One of the scenarios that can fire a Glock is getting your shirt tail wadded up in the trigger bow while pushing it into the holster on your quarter hip.
An instructor showed me that one.

[Lumpy Grits]

We ALL have had an AD or two.
If you maintain muzzle discipline, then all you do is change your pants.
Just keep your booger picker of the pedal............
G.

[Top Dog]

Lumpygrits,
The 1911 is much more safe to carry cocked and locked. That is the way John Moses Browning designed it. The gun is over 100 years old and in my humble opinion,is still as modern as tomorrow.

Now,as to modifications to the factory Glocks (and SIGs,etc) maybe something as far as the grip goes but when you start going to a lot of aftermarket stuff you are pretty much treading on thin ice

A few years ago,my department switched from SIGs to Glocks and after I qualified and trained all the officers/admin,one officer went out and bought an after market guide rod for the Glock 23. He went to the range and the gun did not work.

A few choice words were directed towards him from me and the original rod was put back in place.

NYPD a number of years ago (not many) did a study of gun battles over a ten year period of time (6,000). It was titled SOP 9.

Virtually all the incidents were less than 21 feet with the vast majority at ten feet and less. No reloads were needed.

And that incident by the Empire State Building,the perpetrator was not injured but six bystanders were shot. I do not remember if there were any fatalities (but there MANY lawsuits)

Yes,you are right,each bullet has a civil liability attached to it.


Again,in my opinion,money should be spent on practice ammo with a lot of range sessions instead of trying to alter the SD gun.

Just my opinion,I have seen stuff go not well at all for folks who altered the guns.

Top Dog

[mdeland]

I've never owned a gun of any kind that has not been altered from factory spec in some regard and virtually all real gun people are in the same boat! All the major gun brands have huge after market industries because the factory guns are so poorly set up for shoot-ability and accuracy.
In an effort to make them lawyer proof they actually made them less safe overall, in my opinion. I feel being able to hit what your shooting at and nothing else puts one in far less legal jeopardy.
One of the folks I asked about having an AD told me, " yup, there are two kinds of hand gun owners, those who have had an AD and those who are going to" and this guy is one of the most careful , responsible people I know ! That certainly sent a chill down my spine.

[Lumpy Grits]

Preaching to shooters here.
Try convincing a jury of 12 in a civil matter, that don't know what end of a gun is what.
Remember-civil suits only need a majority of the 12, to assign blame.
My first shooting when I was an LEO, was tied up in civil court for 5 yrs.
G.

[Top Dog]

Lumpy Grits,
I agree with you on that one for sure.

Just think,your fate lies with 12 licensed drivers,according to lawyers are "too dumb to get out of jury duty".

I strongly suggest that a licensed handgun permit holder be;
1- A member of the NRA
2- get shooter insurance either from the NRA endorsed company (2nd call defense) or through Concealed Carry.org cost for either one is about the same ($300).
3- practice often and document your practice sessions.

4- if possible,attend some shooting courses offered by qualified companies that have a long documented proven track record.

Most smaller police departments offer only town council for an officer involved in a shooting. Nice gesture but that attorney probably is only versed in land transactions. You need a qualified attorney whose expertise is in SD incidents.

These are just my thoughts on a very serious subject.

Top Dog

[Lumpy Grits]

Some look at jury service as a duty to our country. I do.
I never regret being called-Just never get seated on a jury when my LEO background is discovered.
Last time I was called. I was excused for not only my LEO history, along with the fact my SIL was the arresting officer.
G.

[desert deuce]

Funnier, The Judge during vore dyer asked me if I knew anyone in the court room.
I said yes.
She asked, "who in this courtroom do you know?"
I replied, "the prosecutor, the defendant, counsel for the defense and 9 of the 15 people here in the jury box."
She said, "you may go."

[mdeland]

I was a jury foreman some 30 years ago in a burglary trial and I couldn't believe the trouble I had to get the rest of the jurors to agree to convict the guy on iron glad , irrefutable evidence any one could see. They were looking for any technicality to let him go because it made them feel bad to give the guy a record.
No accounting for how a jury is going to respond to any case far as can tell.
The attorney that talked to us in my CC class was experienced in such cases and did not think reasonable gun improvements particularly problematic. Oddly though he did mention the color as being a problem in defense. He said any color other than black or blue constitutes lack of responsibility seriousness of the owner, in a jury's mind, regarding and incident.

[Lumpy Grits]

Anytime a lawyer says things like that.
I ask for case(s) he is referring to.......
Lots of lawyers, just like to hear their own voice.
Never heard of a gun's color being an issue in all the trials I was part of.

G.

[mdeland]

The CC class I used was the one of the best in the state from checking around and the lawyer they use is a popular (because successful) defense attorney in shooting cases which is why he is hooked up with this outfit. They teach a wide range of defense classes from beginner to pro and are staffed with current and ex LEO's.
I did not see one of the instructors with a stock factory personal defense weapon.