Tiimes have changed

[Del]

We live in a different world. The first Creedmoor Match was held Sept. 26th, 1874 at a site on New York's Long Island on 70 acres purchased by the combined efforts of the New York State Legislature and the newly formed NRA. At the match were six American shooters and six Irish shooters:

Creedmoor International Rifle Match 1874
______________________America______________________Ireland______________________
___________Henry Fulton_________171 ___________John Rigby___________163
___________G.W. Yale___________162 ___________J.B. Hamilton________160
___________John Bodine_________158 ___________James Wilson________ 160
___________Colonel Gildersleeve__155 ___________J.K. Milner__________154
___________ L.L. Hepburn________149 ___________ Edmund Johnson_____150
___________T.S. Dakin___________139 ___________Captain Walker _______144
______________ Grand Total______ 934 ____________Grand Total_________931

The Central Railroad of Long Island established a railway station nearby, with trains running from Hunter's Point, with connecting boat service to 34th Street and the East River, allowing access from New York City. The crowds that day were reported to be between 5,000 and 10,000 strong.

The following year the Dollymount International Rifle Match 1875 was held just outside of Dublin which was attended by somewhere near 40,000 spectators which almost overran Dublin.

______________________The Dollymount International Rifle Match 1875______________________
______________________America______________________Ireland___________________________
___________Henry Fulton_________161___________MR. Pollock___________161
___________G.W. Yale___________160___________ J.B. Hamilton_________161
___________John Bodine_________162___________James Wilson__________163
___________Colonel Gildersleeve__164___________J.K. Milner____________133
___________ Mr. Coleman________156___________Edmund Johnson_______162
___________T.S. Dakin___________164___________ Mr. McKenna__________144
_____________Grand Total_______967______________ Grand Total_______ 929

So, for a two year period, with a total of 12 competitors shooting, somewhere near 50,000 spectators spent hard earned money to attend these matches.

My point being that maybe we shouldn't be trying to get more competitors to shoot, but rather more spectators to attend... I was struck the first time I attended the National Championships in Raton that this was really just another, albeit larger, silhouette match. I guess in my mind I always thought that there would be qualifying matches where shooters would work their way up through the ranks and finally there would be a culmination of, as in the days of old, of a small group of the best shooters shooting that would be determined via competition who was the best! Then, the top six would then compete possibly at international events.

Which I suppose is kind of what happens where we all kind of know who the best is in each shooting venues. But where are the crowds?? We can hardly get our wives to come watch let alone several thousand onlookers from the community at large. Raton is a bit out of the way from any large metropolitan area where the Creedmoor Range was a matter of a few miles from several million people with a possible boat and/or train ride to get to it. How did all those thousands of spectators find out about this match at a time where there was no multimedia, tv, radio, or internet? Today most people turn their noses up at shooting events because they are not politically correct.

Is football or baseball or basketball or soccer or golf or any other large sporting event really done for the competitors or is it done for the spectators? A national motocross event has thousands of people that attend to watch and a local motocross event will have hundreds, many if not most are motorcycle riders who are living vicariously through their favorite nation level rider, or football player, or whatever. I see a lot of t-shirts with favorite numbers of players or names of motocrossers and their teams supported by factories but I have yet to see a Brian Chilson t-shirt being worn down the street even by one of my grandkids...

Is Brian any less competent at our sport of silhouette than Michael Jordan was at Basketball in his day? Or is Dave Gullo any less of a master at long range matches nationally or internationally than Tiger Woods was at golf in his day? They all can be beat on any given day but overall, they are the masters of their chosen venues.

So I guess what I'm getting at isn't that we are short of competitors but rather we are short of spectators. And I would suggest that from spectators come competitors and not the other way around. The NRA purchased ground and provided funds and a range and everything else for six guys to compete. Was this really for those six guys or was it for the thousands that spectated at the events and found pride in supporting their fellow countrymen in the efforts. Now they can't seem to justify holding the event for anything less than 8 times that many competitors but there aren't any spectators and very few followers of what we do outside of ourselves?? But by 1910 the crowds had dissipated and the Creedmoor Range was deeded back to the state of New York and today has the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center planted on top of it. Times do change...

Somehow the Cowboy Action Shooters at Ben Avery's Winter Range event draws multiple thousands of spectators I'm told to the Range. How do they do it? Maybe we could take a page or two out of their playbook? Or maybe our folks don't care for any of that? I'm not really suggesting that we change what we are doing as I think most of our brethren are happy doing what they do and only lament about things when it appears that it will affect them and their ability to do some shooting event that they personally like and have historically participated in.

It will be interesting to see if the allure of attending an International Shooting event like the one coming up at Oak Ridge where the men and ladies dress up in their finest and they lounge in the grass sipping refreshments as if they were attend one of the Triple Crown Horse Racing events. Somehow I think that day has gone away. To be replaced by shorts and flipflops and the beer garden.

Yep, times have changed....

[Don McDowell]

Good point Del.
Today's top riflemen, Chilson, Gullo, Moritz, Schuenke, Mate , etal are every bit the talented riflemen of the 1870's that Bodine and co. were. But yet we don't see any press on them. The New York times carried daily dispatches with scores and a running account of the shooting for every match held at Creedmoor, not just the big spring and fall meetings.
Altho we do get to read about some collegiate air rifle team in the NRA pub's..

[Del]

It would be kind of fun shooting in a shoot-off in front of 20,000 cheering fans!

But to get the kind of event that put together to deal with even 1000 fans would take major promotion, a huge venue, lots of vendors, and a ton of expensive promotion. And our society isn't attached to guns as they were back then so there is very little interest in large metropolitan areas to attend something like that.

So maybe it isn't the NRA that is killing our sport. Maybe it's just that times are changing.

[Don McDowell]

Yup the antigun culture has had a huge affect since 68.
It's sort of a sad thing that a young couple that is sort of interested in shooting will tell you they can't afford to get into it, but will think nothing of spending 700$ to go to Denver to see a Bronco's or Nuggets or Avalanche game..
IPSC, 3gun and similar draw pretty good crowds, but the amount of air time devoted to those is pretty large. I'm also of a notion that a lot of the reason CAS got so popular for a time was the amount of tv coverage dedicated to it.
One thing I find interesting is watching the Olympic channel and the coverage of the biathlon events in Europe. People travel from all over Europe to cheer on their biathlon team. They say biathlon in the number 1 sport in Germany and Austra. Teams seek out coaches from around the world to coach those, much like coaches in the NFL and Major league baseball..Heck the guy to beat is a shooter on the French team.. imagine that.
It would be interesting to see if the interest in BPCR would go up if somehow "we" could get more visual "live" action coverage of some of the regional matches.

[Crash Landing]

Don
You posted a desire for more "visual live action coverage of some of the regional matches". That could actually be done, although I'm not sure it could be "live". The internet can be accessed at the Whittington Center but I'm not sure it can be accessed out on the various ranges. If the net can be accessed on the BPCR range, video could be streamed live to a website. If not, video clips or sequences could be could be posted several times a day to YouTube for anyone to view. Shooting video and streaming or posting video files to the net could probably be done by two people.
Similar video coverage could be done and streamed or posted online at regional matches as well.
While not exactly prime time TV network coverage, a broad audience could be served with proper online promotion prior to the actual event.
Something to chew on?

[Gussy]

I was actually surprised to see what I considered to be a fair amount of spectators at the Quigley. I think a lot more would be there with some advertising of the event.

A lot of people stopped by the table and a lot asked questions.

[Kurt]

Del, our local range is just 200 yards and mostly trap and pistol. But we have a 200 yard pit for the CMP matches.
Every year we put out notice that we hold a open house in May. The notices are posted on windows at gas stations and were ever and even have the local radio station make mention. The members bring firearms of all types including archery and black powder rifles, muzzle loaders and cartridge and the attendance runs over a thousand that will show up over the weekend it is held.
All it takes is a little advertising and people show up.
The interest is out there, When I sit on the line shooting my Sharps it don't take but a few shots fired when guys and gals are standing behind me watching. I always bring a light caliber and offer to let them shoot and very seldom I get turned down. 5 Shiloh's have showed up over the years since they shot mine so there is a interest in these old rifles.
Kurt

[Don McDowell]

Don
You posted a desire for more "visual live action coverage of some of the regional matches". That could actually be done, although I'm not sure it could be "live". The internet can be accessed at the Whittington Center but I'm not sure it can be accessed out on the various ranges. If the net can be accessed on the BPCR range, video could be streamed live to a website. If not, video clips or sequences could be could be posted several times a day to YouTube for anyone to view. Shooting video and streaming or posting video files to the net could probably be done by two people.
Similar video coverage could be done and streamed or posted online at regional matches as well.
While not exactly prime time TV network coverage, a broad audience could be served with proper online promotion prior to the actual event.
Something to chew on?

Randy that would surely be one thought about it. But I didn't mean "live" as in a breathless announcer giving blow by blow, I intended something a bit more of a condensed version like that show Scouten did (maybe still does) on the Outdoor Channel type of thing.
But either way it'll take a camera operator etc that isn't wanting to be shooting the match..
But it surely is something to chew on.

[BFD]

And how they have remained the same. Here is a clip of Norske shooting matches. You don't have to speak the language to see what's going on. But they have "crowds" of spectators, "breathless" announcers from the MSM, cheerleaders, and guys (and gals) that can just plain shoot. They also have a very watchable sport, good scoreboards for the onlookers and several different types of matches.

Oh yeah, the shooting part starts at the 16:30 minute mark. If you start there and watch for a few minutes, I bet you watch the whole thing. They have some GREAT matches on youtube, if you can find them. Love watching the Krag shooters kick butt. And watch for the guy in the faded red shooting cap. He knows that he is doing.

At the 32 minute mark, they start another type of competition which is super cool, in my opinion. Perfect for lever gunners.

It would be easy to adapt BPCR to a similar format, particularly the paired shoot-offs in a round-robin match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cnAwRJc7Sw&t=712s

[Del]

It's possible to create a Facebook account and live stream through that account. We do it for our business (my daughter has been maybe I should say) and it works pretty well. I'm not sure of the connectivity down at the range where the wifi connections at the Whittington Center are focused at the spots where people are camping or renting. Would be pretty easy to check I suppose. Maybe a call to them would answer the questions.

We could just set up a camera pointing down range where people could watch the animals fall, maybe from behind some of the shooters so they could see who was shooting, see the conditions, storms rolling through (or maybe we wouldn't want to show them that!!!). Something to think about.

[BFD]

It would be a hoot to watch some shooting then stroll the line with the camera and a microphone and BS with shooters as they come and go from the line. Why not?

[Don McDowell]

Brent thanks for the link on that. Couldn't understand a word they said but the targets and the smiles spoke volumes.

[BFD]

Yup, it's pretty obvious what's going on. And pretty clearly, they have lots of popular support. There is another game, not shown that is also a pairwise game as I recall. It uses the target that has the red flags that swing out from behind when hit.

I don't think we would have to make a speed match but something with pair-wise competitions, round-robin, on targets that signal that they have been hit or fall over, would make a good match for spectating and fun to shoot.

[Kurt]

Now there is a bunch of guys that can work a bolt rifle. Very good competition.

[Ray Newman]

Kurt: not only can they work a bolt, but at least one also used an obsolete and unsafe Krag Jorgensen action!