Spencers, anyone .... ?

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Todd Birch
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Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

How many of you shoot Spencer carbines/rifles, original or repro? Got any comments or advice for a Spencer newbie?

I've got a repro coming in 56-50. I'm looking forward to the learning curve, getting it to perform to expectations. I'm on the CasCity forum, so I'm getting a lot of advice and comments from owners on how to make them work and shoot well. Like a lot of Italian guns, they come with some issues.

I went with the 56-50 because it's an original calibre and I have a trio of .50 calibre Shilohs already - a '63 SRC, a 50-70 '74 carbine and a 50-70 Military Rifle. I ordered an Accurate 51-350S DC aluminum mould to feed it. I can also use that bullet with the Shilohs.

I don't have great expectations as to performance. If it groups within 6" at 100 yards, 3" at 50, I'll be happy.

In Peter Schiffer's book on shooting original ACW carbines, he was not impressed with the accuracy of his original .56 Spencer, rating it 8th overall out of 12 designs tested, shooting them at 50m, 100m and 200m.

The Sharps '63 was ranked 3rd. Winner overall was the Sharps & Hankins which really surprised me.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
Woody
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Woody »

I used to shoot an original 56-56 Spencer many years ago. I altered an original extra breech block to centerfire and used DGW 50-70 cases cut to length and turned the rims down to fit using a wood dowel, a electric drill, and a file. Coarse, but it worked. I used the Dixie "tong" Spencer mould and got acceptable accuracy at 50 and 100 yards. In those days, I mostly used SR 4759 powder instead of Black.

Woody
Richard A. Wood
If you are surrounded. You are in a target rich environment.
Todd Birch
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

Thanks, Woody.

Eventually I'd like to have an original, but for fun and some CAS, a repro suits my needs and is affordable.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
George Babits
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by George Babits »

Spencers are interesting and fun to shoot. I have 2, both originals and both nominally 56-50. One is a Spencer made 1865 with the Stabler cutoff that I got a conversion kit for. The other is one of less than 1000 made in Liege, Belgium, in 1873, that was originally made in center fire (see Marcot's Spencer book, pg. 157). That one takes a slightly longer cartridge which seems very close to the US 50 carbine round. I haven't shot it yet, but have 25 rounds ready to go when the weather warms up. Unlike a Winchester lever gun , you have to work the lever with "authority." Giveing it a little tilt to the right assures that the extractor will do it's job. I can't speak for the replicas, but don't expect target accuracy from a Spencer. Also, like most of the carbines of that vintage, they have horrible triggers and shoot about 2 feet high. Starline brass seems to work fine in both my Spencers, but the Belgian one will take cut down 50-70 brass as well. With an original, you have to turn the rims down a little if you make your brass out of 50-70 cases.

George
Salmon, Idaho
Todd Birch
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

Yes, there will be a learning curve I'm sure as I learn the idiosyncrasies of the Spencer action.

Over several years I've collected several articles on shooting both original Spencers and the repros. There are also several videos on Spencers as well.

I email with a collector of Spencers who has several originals and classy repros like the Romano products. I've been warned what to look for and what to do about factory defects. The Romanos seem to be the only ones that are good to go out of the box, but they can cost more than a deluxe Shiloh.

He has traded a couple of NIB Shilohs for a minty original and has both a rifle and carbine with the same serial numbers!

One of our CAS guys has a Spencer that was a gift from his wife as an anniversary present. She couldn't find one in Canada, so she called Italy and was told - "No way!" She asked to speak to the boss and repeated her story. He was so touched that he made it possible and a Spencer was shipped directly to her.

He shoots it in a couple of stages (BP, of course) at every match even tho' it kills his time. He never fails to have an audience as people appreciate the archaic Spencer in action compared to the short stroke '73s with pop gun loads.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
buffalocannon
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by buffalocannon »

Eastwood did pretty good work with a Spencer in "Unforgiven." "Who's the fella owns this shithouse?"
Todd Birch
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

Well, someone had to. Morgan freeman sure as hell didn't!

Any other movies that featured Spencers?
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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kenny s
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by kenny s »

I have an original with a modified breachbock. kept the old one just in case.
If I were in the Custer battle, I would be armed with ONLY a Spencer. it works that well.
ez to load. 50 70 cases cut short, dies available. 50 molds work well, with 56 grain of 1 1.2 load.
a really good gun....
If you want a "Blakeslee repro block, send me a PM.
Ken
Todd Birch
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

Custer's Troopers weren't given the option to retain their Spencers. Another example of 'military intelligence' at work.

No longer necessary to cut down 50-70 brass as 56-50 is available from Star-Line, IF it can be adapted to your 56-56. In Canada, that 56-50 brass goes for $182 CDN per 100 cases!

I've got both a Rapine 350 and Lyman 515141 moulds, but I wanted a bullet with a wide, flat meplat so I ordered an Accurate 51-350S DC mould for it.

I've spent money on this rifle like a drunken Cowboy and don't even have a hangover for it as I am still waiting on delivery.

What make is your Blakeslee loader? There's a few out there.

Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
George Babits
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by George Babits »

Het Todd,

Lots of movies with Spencers. John Wayne's, "Undefeated;" and The Blue and Grey" series are a couple that come to mind at the moment.

George
Todd Birch
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

Carbine in the dealer's hands! I told them not to ship it until I see pics. If the breechblock screw is visible with the action closed, the lever needs bending to get fully in battery. Also, earlier Chiappas were known to require Loctite on barrel threads!

I had to order dies direct from RCBS as I could only locate Lyman this side of the DMZ, and I had been warned against them in this calibre. I secured 200 Star-Line cases, so I'm good to go.

I ordered an Accurate 51-350S DC aluminum block mould which arrived PDQ from the maker. It's a gem, but now I learn that I need a set of Lee 6 cavity mould handles.

I already have A Rapine 350 gr mould so I'll be playing one against t'other to see what the Spencer prefers. It has a single wide grease groove, the Rapine two narrow grooves.

I've got a lot invested in this carbine which I will not see for yet another 10-14 days.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
Todd Birch
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

Just got word that my Spencer has been shipped today. Why the delay, I don't know .... :evil:

With Canada Post's track record, I'm looking at a possible two week wait as we only get mail twice weekly.

In the meantime, I've been busy annealing 200 Star Line 56-50 cases and sizing/lubing 200 bullets cast from a Rapine 350 gr RNFP mould. These haven't much of a flat point so I'll likely load them singly to shoot. I don't fancy a mag tube detonation like I've seen with Henrys.

I have a new Accurate 51-350S mould with a wide meplat but it's too damn cold of late(-25C) to be out in the unheated shed where I do my casting.

Now I'm in "wait mode", something like waiting for a new Shiloh, but not quite at the same level.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
Todd Birch
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
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Re: Spencers, anyone .... ?

Post by Todd Birch »

Finally shot my new Chiappa Spencer carbine! Temp was -12C. Cold on the paws ... :roll:

Off hand at 20m it printed 5 rds in a 2" group. I then benched it and it did better, but 3" to the left. Huh? I fired 5 more off hand into the same group which enlarged it to 3", but again, all to the left.

Load was 30 grs FFFg using the bullet for compression. Bullet was the Rapine 350 gr RN which has a long, semi-pointed ogive so I had to single load. Too long to cycle in the action. Not enough lube to make a 'lube star' on the muzzle.

When I got home, I discovered the reason for the shift in the point of impact. The front sight was no longer top dead centre! I was able to turn the barrel off by hand ... :? Apparently cycling the action centred the barrel, but it shifted to the left going into battery. According to the guys on the Spencer Shooting Society list of CasCity, this is not rare with Chiappa Spencers. The fix is to use some red Loc Tite on the barrel threads which I have done.

Chiappa/Italy has not yet responded to my inquiries about this quality control issue.

I recently acquired an Accurate 51-350S DC aluminum 350 RNFP mould and it casts beautiful bullets! Sized .512, lubed with SPG. Loaded up some rds with 35 FFFg which required compression in order not to bulge the cases by using the bullet for compression or leave a ring on the bullet ogive.

The Spencer is very fussy as to OAL and bullet ogive. If it doesn't like the ammo, it will not feed. It tends to favour harder bullets as they gall less in the feeding from the mag tube to the chamber. It's hard on bullet noises. My dummy rds are all rat chewed, requiring filing in order to feed.

Waiting on some warmer weather to fire these. It was -35C this morning ... :shock:

Appearance wise, the carbine is beautiful with nice mottled case colours on the side plate, receiver, hammer and even the butt plate. Nice dark wood.
Compared to my Shiloh '74 50-70 carbine, it looks diminutive. Spencer should have extended the tube mag to 10 rds and lengthened the barrel to 'short rifle' length.
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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