45-2.6 to 40-90bn brass

[Michael Johnson]

Does anyone on the forum have any experience to share about making 40-90bn brass from Starline 45-2.6? I am thinking about a Shiloh Business rifle for hunting in 40-90bn. - Mike

[Michael Johnson]

I already load and shoot BPCR in 40-65, 45-70, 45-2.6, and 50-90. This will be my first bn cartridge in BP. I have read a lot of Todd's and Merrit's posts. I am looking for a hi velocity 40 for hunting.I presently hunt with a 50-90 Remington Roller. I am looking for another challenge. Presently have a Shiloh Business rifle on order. Thanks! - Mike

[Don McDowell]

Trim it back to about 2.5, anneal it, run it into your 40-65 die, load and fire form then trim to finished length.
It's just a bunch quicker and easier to get the brass BACO has already formed. But keep in mind after the initial fireforming of that brass, you'll need to add about another 4 grains of powder.

[Michael Johnson]

Thanks Don! I have done a lot of reloading but have never fire formed brass into a new chambering. Sorry that Jamisons is no longer! - Mike

[Don McDowell]

Last word I heard was that Jamison might be back after they get all the business stuff sorted out.. But we'll just have to wait and see. I wish I would of got another 100 or so of their 45-90 and 45 2 7/8 brass.
OE 1f has worked better than Swiss or Schuetzen 1f in my 40-90. I did get some decent accuracy from Cartridge, but it sure fouls heavy, which isn't particularly good in a hunting load.

[Michael Johnson]

Don, I will keep you posted on this journey and probably ask for more advice. As I already have a 45-2.6 I have lots of brass to experiment with. I love a challenge! - Mike

[Kurt]

The .44-2-5/8/90 is no slow poke either. I have not seen any of my rifles kick up dust as fast as this caliber does. But right now brass is almost none existent. I have this caliber in a 19, 17 and 16 ROT and all three twists shoot very well. And it will put a Buff down in fine shape.

[Michael Johnson]

Kurt, how do you form 44-90 brass from basic components? - Mike

[Michael Johnson]

My 50-90 is no slouch either! - Mike

[Kurt]

Mike before Jamison I had to use .44 Bell basic 3.25" or RMC would make them. Buff arms makes this brass from .348 Win but I never had much luck with it because the rim thickness for head space problems.
With the Bell .44 basic it just takes one pass through CH-4D sizing die and your good to go.

[Don McDowell]

Mike one of these days I need to get the chronograph out and run some loads from the 40-90 and the 44-90 st over it. It doesn't take but the blink of an eye to get a 360 or 410 gr patched bullet down way down range with 94 grs. of OE1f. To give you some idea, it only takes about 160 points on a Hoke sight to get to 1000. I'm guessing either bullet is pushing 1500 real hard.
Worst part of the 40-90 is it's a powder hog, and has an awful lot of muzzle flip/recoil in this #1 with a 30 in. standard weight barrel. Might be better in your business rifle.

[firefighter1990]

I wanted to go that exact route with a dedicated hunting rifle. That is: a plain base line business rifle in 40-90 sbn. I found a used lre in such a caliber for much less and I have posted a progress report in the "black powder shooting" side of the forum. My particular rifle is when Shiloh and c sharps were one in the same and thus the rifle bares both markings. As a result, my chamber is a bit longer with my fire-formed brass being 2.668" overall as opposed to the 2.625".

I made my brass from 45 basic hulls as the 2.6" came up a bit short for my liking. If velocity is what you want then it's my preference and experience that you shoot the the 40-90 the way it was designed to and that is with a paper patched bullet in a 1:18" to 1:20" twist. My load uses 100 grains of OE 1-1/2 under a 370 grain ppb. I haven't chronographed it yet but based on my drop data in a silhouette match and a guesstimated ballistic coefficient: I'm calculating it to be in the ballpark of 1480 fps.

My main intent with this rifle is hunting and therefore I prefer a soft bullet to be used. I don't like shooting naked bullets much over 1200fps and a properly wrapped bullet can be fired at smokeless velocities if one so chooses. I have tried gg in this rifle and no matter what form of fouling control I implied; it never shoot as good as it has with paper patched. If the 40-90 isn't loaded fast then there's really no point in having such a chambering (in my opinion.)

Food for thought here: I have an identical rifle in 40-50 sbn that is just a couple serial numbers away from my 40-90. Again a Shiloh/ c sharps with an 18" twist. Same bullet but with 60 grains of OE 1-1/2 and it's a flat shooter as well. Maybe only 100 fps slower but still up there as far as Bpcr velocities go.

If you're a traditionalist and like staying historically correct: a business rifle in 40-70 sbn with a historically correct twist rate would do quite well in velocity with the old 330 grain ppb. A "hunters rifle" with its 26" barrel in 40-50 sbn using the traditional load of a 265 grain ppb is one lethal combination in terms of velocity, one of the fastest actually. I believe one of the "express loading" in 40-90 tops them all though. If my history is correct it was something of a 190 grain hp ??? Maybe. The 370 grain load was the famous game-getter.

I'd be happy to help anyone out as much as I can with bottlenecks as the internet world has deemed them as "inaccurate rounds" when really all that's needed is a bit more patience with them.

[Clarence]

Don,

If you trim to 2.5" before forming, won't the finished brass be too short? The .40-90 BN has a 2.625" nominal length. If I were going to form the brass, I'd try doing it without first trimming.

It will definitely need to be annealed, as you said, and I'd run a .45 expander plug into it before forming. In forming .40-65 from .45-70 Starline, I've lost a few cases to neck collapse when I didn't make sure the neck was perfectly round before forming.

One other question: have you tried forming with the ..40-90 BN sizing die? Just curious about your experience and any problems you found.

Clarence

[firefighter1990]

I just used a standard 40-90 sizing die. Just enough lube to get the job done, too much and you'll end up with dents. I annealed after the necking down process.

[bobw]

I don't have as much experience loading and shooting the 40-90 SBN as others here. Just got mine awhile back, IMHO the only way to fly on the brass is from Buffalo Arms converted 45-2.6 Starline. As it comes from BACO it will work in a std chamber. If you have a tight original style chamber like mine then you need to run the brass up into a 40 SW tungsten sizer die to bring the neck diameter down so it will chamber. I recommend not trimming it at all as it is all ready short at 2.620" as bought, after fire forming it is running at 2.622" on a 2.625" chamber length. I am using a KAL tool 40 TGBS adj paper patch mold that throws them at .392" from 250 grs to 400 +. Currently I have one set at 330 grs for my 40-70 2.1" BN and the other at 370 grs for the 90. My fireform loads were with Goex Fg 90 grs , I will be switching to Fg Olde E as I got a whole case of it from Craig Kirkland of Bear River Powder last year at the Q. Recoil does not seem bad at all but the rifle has a shotgun butt and a 30" heavy barrel and yeah it shoots fast. I'm pretty dang sure it has a 1 in 16 and twist should handle bullets over 400 grs easily but the in me demands some 330 gr action to see 1500+fps for an offhand bucket load for 350 yds. I don't anticipate any real problems, in the past I've heard people say the BN's foul bad in the throat , my 40-70 doesn't so why should the 90? Mild primer, Fg powder, lube wad, and paper patched bullet just like Sharps loaded them. Yup I read Merrit too. Good luck on it. bobw