PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

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mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

I got to thinking that the under bore diameter nose may not be a bad idea for black powder shooting in this caliber.
Any load suggestions in both smokeless and black?
Oh, one more thing while I think about it. Is a grease cookie useful in this case?
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

The large PP bullet I cut weighs 241 grains and the shorter version goes 185 grains. I'll have to check the barrel pitch tonight when I get done with work.
Curious thing with the smaller bullet cut last night is the original .25 caliber mold does not have any vent lines but if I poured slowly it filled out nicely. Never have tried casting in a mold without vent lines before. Probably will go ahead and vent this mold to see if the diameter changes any.
bruce m
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Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by bruce m »

mike,
probably 1:10 twist,
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

I should mention that the patch I put on was a double wrap Chase style patch with the square ends. I'll try both kinds and see which is easier for my beat up fingers to role.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

I cast up 50 more bullets from the new mold and was patching them up. The small diameter was challenging for my beat up fingers. I tried both wet and dry patching with the trapezoid patches I made up but neither were very consistent so I got the idea to use an Elmers glue stick for office stuff which is a very low strength adhesive. In practice I put a bit on the front point to get it to stick to the bullet in the first turn, wrap the patch on using a carpet base and then glue stick the trailing point to keep the whole deal together.
Makes a nice neat tight patche that stay put when loading or handling.
Have no idea if the glue is going to interfere with patch expulsion but I'll give her a try and see.
Are there any known issues with leaving the patch extension past the base on without clipping them off?
martinibelgian
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:20 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by martinibelgian »

Looks to me you're looking for a reason to be able to claim that PP bullets don't work. Sticking the paper on, leaving a tail,....
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

Actually I want the patched bullets to work perfectly. I've never been prejudice of the method but am realistic about it's effectiveness against replacing grease bullets that current hold most if not all the records. Experimenting with the process is all. Trying some new stuff I have not seen done.
The glue stick is no more sticky than often used types of patch lube. It is much like a thin ,none oily wax that does not absorb into the paper . I can unroll a prepared bullet at any time and reapply the paper with out harm to patch or bullet.
Also it does not not make the paper stretch or weaken it as does water. Time and testing will tell the story on the idea, so far it looks quite promising to me as it sure makes rolling patches on these small diameter bullets easy and there for promotes consistency which generally proves good for accuracy.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

This is how I have them patched ready to be loaded. Weight is 185 grains.
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bobw
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Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by bobw »

mdeland do a Hyde base wrap with and open ctr. Cut the width of the patches 1/8" longer to fold over the base edge. I patch dry each bullet prior to seating. They won't stay wrapped tight this way unless you seat them immediately after patching. bobw
bobw
bobw
Posts: 3841
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by bobw »

mdeland do a Hyde base wrap with and open ctr. Cut the width of the patches 1/8" longer to fold over the base edge. I patch dry each bullet prior to seating. They won't stay wrapped tight this way unless you seat them immediately after patching. bobw
bobw
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

Thanks for the tip Bob, I'll give her a try !
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

Well the glue stick Idea did not turn out so well but I finally got a case mouth expander ( three tries) the right diameter to finger seat the bullets before crimping them a bit.
I switched to a bit of bullet lube to stick the paper onto the bullet for patch rolling. Left about a 1/8th tail over the base and ran the other side a bit more up the ogive. Give that a try and see how it works.
I'm shooting smokeless loads so there is no compressed powder column to seat the base against. The case neck tension has to be such to allow insertion without patch damage and still hold the patched bullet in place until the crimp die can tension it enough to make it stay put at the proper depth while chambering.
The bullets all seemed to hit end on with no angled entries but the groups were more like shot gun patterns. :lol: Very interesting experiment/project I'm enjoying a lot.
mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

Having a really hard time with the neck tensioning. If snug enough to stay put while seating and slightly crimping the patch gets damaged at insertion. If a bit to loose the seating depth keeps changing while crimping.
I need to be able to put the slight crimp on by hand in the horizontal to maintain consistent depth , it looks like to me.
Think I'll make a set if crimping pliers and give that a try.
Orville
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Location: Buffalo Wy

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by Orville »

Make your self a bushing die with removable bushings (Meacham made one maybe still does) with different bushing you can get the tension you want so you can finger seat the bullets use a VLD tool so no flare is needed.
Charter Member O-G-A-N-T

Shooting grease groove bullets in a sharps is new technology and just a passing fad.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: PP bullet for SMLE .3143 groove diameter

Post by mdeland »

Yeah, that's the best solution Orville, especially for bullet run out. I thought about that the other night but was looking for a less labor intensive method. I do have a set of expanding reamers that just might adjust down that small to cut the bushing throats and the die body itself would not need to be hardened, only the bushings.
I'll keep messing with it until it works or doesn't but am also going to cut a grease bullet mold for this caliber as well.
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