50-90 and felt recoil.

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Skywagon
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50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Skywagon »

I receive an email the other day stating that I need to finish paying off my rifle. Production slated to begin April 10th. My planned rifle was to be a Rough Rider in 50-90 with a 30in. heavy barrel. Long range shooting is the purpose. It seems that most of the reading I’ve done recoil can be punishing.I know this is subjective. When I first started using a Win. Mod. 70 in .375 H&H I could barely manage 10 rounds off the bench. As I learned to deal with the recoil I could work through about 50 in a range visit with soreness the next day. I called Shiloh to request a 14lb bull barrel. This changes the production date indefinitely. Can those with similarly configured rifles speak to the usability. Is the change to a bull barrel worth while or will it be negligible.
Thanks
Gerry
Eric Johanen
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Eric Johanen »

Do not overlook the standard heavy barrel with a 1X36 twist. 450 to 550 bullet weight and recoil is easy to handle. Some report very good results out to 800 yards. I use a 1X36 Shiloh military rifle in 50-70 and use it on steel out to 500 yards. 465 and 500 grain bullets with 70 to 73 grains of 1.5 OE or Swiss and very shootable. No problem with torque or recoil. I know I would not like 700 grain bullets much at all. My 50-90 is a C. Sharps 14.5 heavy barrel with a 1X26 twist and it is a joy with 590 and 625 grain bullets and 110 grains of 1 FG. In a Shiloh I'd get the 1X36 twist and shoot the daylights out of it!
Dennis Armistead
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Dennis Armistead »

Skywagon,
When you say long range, what distance are you talking about? I have a .50-90 that shoots great but won't compete with my long range gun in .45-100. at 1000. The problem is you'd have to load that 50 with 650 to 700 gr. of projectile backed up with enough 1f to get it down range accurately. That being said you would have tremendous recoil. Now if you're talking about gong shoots out to 800 and just want to have fun with the gun than have at it with 550 grain rounds with standard loading or even reduced loads. (wad stacking) If you want a really sweet shooting 50 than go with the 36 twist and say around 473 to 500 grain rounds. That you can shoot all day and not pay for it in the morning.
Dennis
Experience trumps intelligence every time.
Maj. Forrest Smith
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Maj. Forrest Smith »

You of course "want" what you "want" and don't let me talk you out of something you really want. But for long range .45-90, .45-100 and .45-110 will get you to 1,000 yards with ease. Brass is easily gotten in the .45-90 and .45-100, The .45-110 brass is a little harder to find. There are a lot of bullet moulds available in the .45 caliber. .45-90 is a very good all round caliber for about any of our shooting sports we compete in too without being overly punishing to one's shoulder too. But if the Big 50 has been in your dream book forever, by all means continue the order as you planned.
gunlaker
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by gunlaker »

With respect to recoil, the 14 lb barrel should help quite a bit.

I no longer own any .50-90 rifles but have a 14lb .45-2-7/8". It doesn't feel much different than a .45-70 to me, and is much more gentle recoiling than the 12.5 lb .45-2-7/8" I sold a while back.

The 14 lb gun actually weighs more like 15lbs though. Not something you want to carry around all day, and it does require the cross sticks to be set quite well due to the extra weight.

Chris.
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J.B.
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by J.B. »

The old recoil question... 'how long is a piece of string' :wink: I have a 50x 2 1/2 Shiloh in a Saddle rifle. Ordered with a 30" #1 heavy octagonal barrel & 1/22" twist. The rifle as always..is a work of art but it is a handful ( for me at least ) when I stoke it up. I did have Kirk fit a reducer in the stock and this balanced the rifle a little better and brought the weight up to around 12.5 lbs. I've since had a local gunsmith fit a walnut pistol grip so I could better hold onto the tail when the tiger took off. :lol: This mind you.. is with 650-700 grn bullets and 105-115 gns of Swiss 1.5. Loaded back to 470-500 grn bullets with 95-100 x Swiss 1.5 and the rifle changes demeanour markedly. It shoots very well with the heavier load and provided I do my part ( isnt that always the case :roll: )it more than holds its own to 1000 yds & more. Were I to place another order for the larger 50 I'd be specifying the 1/36" twist and possibly go to a No.1 Sporter configuration. I do like the look and heft of the 14lb barrel rifles but their suitability for sticks tends to limit them a little in other areas. I'd also have to be more patient waiting for a bull barrel run...and patient i'm not. :( I've shot the 1/22 with conventional weight ..ie. 450-550 weight bullets out to 1000 yds without issue but I'd give the nod to the larger projectiles in that twist for long range. I've also shot a 50/70 in a 1/36" twist out to 900 yds with 470 grns with success. There was a lot of air time for the stubby 50 but it still managed the trip. The old story really...get what 'floats your boat'... or you'll always be wondering "what if". The torque of the 1/22 vs 1/36" is what I noticed the most...and the larger - longer bullets in the 2.5" case only amplified the experience.
...Just a few thoughts ..and my experience. No regrets ..there's always the next order :lol:

J.B.
"an experimental weapon..with experimental ammunition ? ...Lets experiment "
Michael Johnson

Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Michael Johnson »

I have a 50-90 Remington Rolling block hunting rifle by the late Dave Higginbotham. It weighs a touch over 10 pounds with a 28 inch straight 1 1/8 octagon Green Mountain 1/24 twist barrel. I shoot the Paul Jones 550 grain flat nose bullet. The felt recoil is like shooting a 3.5 inch magnum 12 ga shotgun. Not bad at all for hunting but I would not want to shoot a silhouette match with the rifle (I have). - Mike
firefighter1990
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by firefighter1990 »

I have a Hartford in such a beast that wears a heavy 30" barrel with the 1:22 twist. It's my go-to gun for hunting but I have used it in silhouette matches with my two personal best scores being attributed to that gun. The 50-2.5" is a scary accurate chambering. Recoil is stout when compared to the normal 45-70 and 40-65 that dominate the shooting line but it's basically identical to a 12 ga turkey or goose load (with added torque that is.) I will say that I HATE shooting it from a bench. Prone is much more comfortable (for me).

My "target load" uses 100 gr of OE 1-1/2F. .060" fiber wad. About .200" compression with a slip fit 695 gr creedmoor bullet from a baco mold all in fire formed and unsized starline brass. F210 primers. That bullet's product number is JIM511695C1 if you want to do a search on baco web page. It's OAL is 1.45" which is perfect for the 1:22" twist all the way out to 1000 if you care to push it that far. While you're there, get the shoulder pad that baco sells and you can shoot all day.
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kenny s
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by kenny s »

BOOM...ouch
BOOM...ouch

I have one and it's truly accurate at normal ranges, but 95 2f, and a 600 grain bullet doesn't just push...

so...it spends a lot of time in the gun safe, and I had a 40 70 SS made and that is at the range every week.

just sayin'
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Tebbeman
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Tebbeman »

I've had mine for several years now and hunt with it. My shooting partner used it to harvest his cow elk; one shot no problem. I've killed my elk with it; one shot at 156 yards, no problem. I enjoy shooting it and I'm not a big guy (5' 8" and 180 lbs) but I learned I don't need a 660-700 grain bullet as the 525 flat nose does all I need. My rifle wears a heavy oct 32" barrel and although a little heavy toting around all day, it is a pleasure to shoot. Plus it is so rewarding when that big flat nose hits its target with an audible "WHACK". I don't think I would wait forever for a 14 lb barrel and I'd encourage ordering the heavy oct in 32". Good luck and enjoy your long awaited Shiloh.

Kenny Tebbe
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Kurt
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Kurt »

If you can't handle a high brass field load 12 gauge with 1.5oz #4 shot you won't like the .50-2.5.
The accuracy of the .50 is just as good as any black powder caliber "IF" you can control it. You can't hit something with your eyes closed before pulling the trigger, it's like shooting in the dark.
Body position makes a lot of difference with felt recoil.
A lot of shooters get a high capacity rifle in the .45 and .50 calibers even the long cased .40's and down load them to what the cowboy shooters use and get into trouble.............Kurt
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Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

The old Sharps Catalog stated the 45 could do better work at a 1000 yards than the 50 at 600. To get long range results equal to the 45 requires, 680 to 750 grain bullets and a faster twist than the original guns. One of my good friends had his 50 rebarreled to a 18# configuration and it does well, with a faster twist, still he tried down loading it to cut recoil, he is a big husky man. That should tell you everything, you need to know

Recoil effects are cumulative, don’t kid yourself..there is a damm good reason the 50-90 doesn’t show up in the winners circle very often.

As for the hunting ranges, by the time the northern herd was harvested, the 50-90 took a back seat to the 45-110 and the 40-90BN, due to their superior long range ballistic performance. It isn’t my opinion it’s well documented.

KW
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Skywagon
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Skywagon »

I called Shiloh today and completed the order for the 50-90. I went with the 30in heavy octagonal barrel and a recoil reducer. I don’t dispute what some have sai,but I guess I have to find out for myself.
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Shadow 4
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by Shadow 4 »

Skywagon wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:20 pm I receive an email the other day stating that I need to finish paying off my rifle. Production slated to begin April 10th. My planned rifle was to be a Rough Rider in 50-90 with a 30in. heavy barrel. Long range shooting is the purpose. It seems that most of the reading I’ve done recoil can be punishing.I know this is subjective. When I first started using a Win. Mod. 70 in .375 H&H I could barely manage 10 rounds off the bench. As I learned to deal with the recoil I could work through about 50 in a range visit with soreness the next day. I called Shiloh to request a 14lb bull barrel. This changes the production date indefinitely. Can those with similarly configured rifles speak to the usability. Is the change to a bull barrel worth while or will it be negligible.
Thanks
Gerry
Please bear with me. I've only been at this for a about a dozen years, not close to a 100 yrs like some of you. :lol:

I hear a lot of talk about "The Big Fifty", just don't understand it. :(
I am of the thought that the reason for buying a "50" was to send 700 grainers downrange, bigger gun, bigger hunks of lead, not pea seeds of 480-550 grs, that's what 45-70/45-100's are for.
Skywagon wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:20 pm It seems that most of the reading I’ve done recoil can be punishing.I know this is subjective. When I first started using a Win. Mod. 70 in .375 H&H I could barely manage 10 rounds off the bench. As I learned to deal with the recoil I could work through about 50 in a range visit with soreness the next day.
Thanks
Gerry
So, does this rule the 650-700 grainers out?
If long range is it's purpose, then it seems that 700 grs are in order :D
Maj. Forrest Smith wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:22 pm You of course "want" what you "want" and don't let me talk you out of something you really want. But for long range .45-90, .45-100 and .45-110 will get you to 1,000 yards with ease. Brass is easily gotten in the .45-90 and .45-100, The .45-110 brass is a little harder to find. There are a lot of bullet moulds available in the .45 caliber. .45-90 is a very good all round caliber for about any of our shooting sports we compete in too without being overly punishing to one's shoulder too. But if the Big 50 has been in your dream book forever, by all means continue the order as you planned.
Ditto
45-70 520 or 537gr tapered money's, 75grs 1 1/2 shot all day by my daughter, no recoil problem, 1000yds and beyond, not an issue
45-100 560gr tapered money 93grs 1 1/2 shot all day, no recoil problem(getting there), 1000yds and beyond not an issue
Dennis Armistead wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:19 pm Skywagon,
When you say long range, what distance are you talking about? I have a .50-90 that shoots great but won't compete with my long range gun in .45-100. at 1000. The problem is you'd have to load that 50 with 650 to 700 gr. of projectile backed up with enough 1f to get it down range accurately. That being said you would have tremendous recoil. Now if you're talking about gong shoots out to 800 and just want to have fun with the gun than have at it with 550 grain rounds with standard loading or even reduced loads. (wad stacking) If you want a really sweet shooting 50 than go with the 36 twist and say around 473 to 500 grain rounds. That you can shoot all day and not pay for it in the morning.
Dennis
Dennis captures this perfectly

Again,I hear a lot of talk about "The Big Fifty", just don't understand it. :(
"load it down" to this or that, it'll be a sweet shooter, I thought the point was bigger gun, bigger hunk of lead, shoot further? You're getting it for long range. You'll have to load it with over a 100 grs of powder & 700grs of lead
Hear a lot of talk about "The Big Fifty", see/hear alot less of them actually on the line.

All these dozen years I know of one guy that used his, almost cleaned a 8, 9, 1000yd course, (29/30), yep, 700grs of lead, Buz Coker
kenny s wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:49 am BOOM...ouch
BOOM...ouch

I have one and it's truly accurate at normal ranges, but 95 2f, and a 600 grain bullet doesn't just push...

so...it spends a lot of time in the gun safe, and I had a 40 70 SS made and that is at the range every week.

just sayin'
I fear this is what will happen, it'll spend it's time in the safe, after an "indefinite" wait, another gun will be ordered, another wait, but, you'll have that "fifty"
Kurt wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:31 am If you can't handle a high brass field load 12 gauge with 1.5oz #4 shot you won't like the .50-2.5.
The accuracy of the .50 is just as good as any black powder caliber "IF" you can control it. You can't hit something with your eyes closed before pulling the trigger, it's like shooting in the dark.
Body position makes a lot of difference with felt recoil.
A lot of shooters get a high capacity rifle in the .45 and .50 calibers even the long cased .40's and down load them to what the cowboy shooters use and get into trouble.............Kurt
Or, for what ever reason, they keep feeding it round after round in practice during the week & end up concused :roll:
Skywagon wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:20 pm I called Shiloh to request a 14lb bull barrel. This changes the production date indefinitely. Can those with similarly configured rifles speak to the usability.
Thanks
Gerry
Question is, do you want to wait "indefinitely", or be on the line somewhere shooting :wink:
Maj. Forrest Smith wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:22 pm You of course "want" what you "want" and don't let me talk you out of something you really want. But for long range .45-90, .45-100 and .45-110 will get you to 1,000 yards with ease. Brass is easily gotten in the .45-90 and .45-100, The .45-110 brass is a little harder to find. There are a lot of bullet moulds available in the .45 caliber. .45-90 is a very good all round caliber for about any of our shooting sports we compete in too without being overly punishing to one's shoulder too. But if the Big 50 has been in your dream book forever, by all means continue the order as you planned.
As the Major said, sometimes we want what we want :wink:
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bobw
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Re: 50-90 and felt recoil.

Post by bobw »

Loading the 50-2.5" to original specs uses a 473 gr paper patch bullet and 100 grs of Fg black powder. 50-90 was a Winchester load. I have a 10 lb original conversion gun chambered for the 50-2.5". The 1 -36" twist was the std back then and NO they didn't shoot 700 gr bullets back then either. 1 in 22 and 1 in 26 twists are modern ideas, not ones from the 1870's -1880's from Sharps. The origin of the 700 gr paper patch bullet was a UMC idea for the Winchester Highwall chambered for the 50-3 1/4". I've seen pictures and an original round or two of this but never any original guns chambered and tight twisted for them. The 1 in 36 twist will handle bullets from 425 grs to 570 without much problems, get to 600 grs and they don't all hit the paper and make a round hole. Been there, done this and know that for a fact. My 50-3 1/4 is a 1 in 36 twist and weighs 10lbs 3 oz with full throttle loads and 570 gr paper patched bullets everything in front of it gets dead or rings hard or at least you have no problem spotting your miss. You all ways know when it goes off. The effects of recoil are cumulative and expensive.
Was I building a 50-2.5" today it would have a 30" heavy barrel ,1 in 36 twist and an ORIGINAL STYLE TIGHT CHAMBER made for only the use of paper patch bullets it was good enough for the buffalo hunters in the 1870-1880's and that is what they were built for.
You want to shoot gongs and other target games, bookmark in your favorites, Shiloh's gun library website and check it every week. 3-4 times a year Shiloh builds stock models with some options that are indeed very nice, available right now for just your credit card number and pickup or delivery to your FFL. They are mostly 45-70's which works fine for this and indeed might not be surpassed by any other. ATLEAST YOU CAN BUY BRASS AT A REASONABLE PRICE FOR IT ANYWHERE. You just think you could only have just this one last gun and your life will be complete but your wrong like the Lays potatoe chip no one can quit at just 1. bobw
bobw
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