40-65w questions

[40-65rl]

After years of shooting the 45-70, yes I know my handle is 40-65rl, I shot the 40-65W at Nationals and really liked the way it shot. It needs some tweaking so I go to the experts.
The barrel is a 1997 badger, .4092, 16 twist, 28 inch.
Questions:

1. What diameter bullet would be the best.
2. Bullet weight. I have moulds for 400, 410, 420. 425.
3. My "Book of loads" from years ago, is favoring 57-60 grains of 3F Swiss, little compression and a CCI BR-2 primer.

My current load is 60 grains of 3F Swiss, little compression, Large Federal Pistol Primer, Mike Lewis 425 bullet, .060 Walters wad, Eagle Lube. Two wipes between shots and three after the first five during the ready.. Shoots pretty well, won the second day in A class and second in the 2 gun in A class after a DNF on the first day of scope due to illness.

So let the games begin. Put together a load for me guys.

Thanks
Dick

[Coltsmoke]

Mail me your rifle, your primers, 4lbs. of your powder, all of your bullet molds, your wads, and wiping solution. Oh yea, I will need your alloy also. Don't forget your dies and brass. Would you like a slip fit load or a neck tension load? Oh Man! I forgot the bullet lube. You will get so many different answers you will not know which way to go.

[desert deuce]

Couple of questions for you 40-65 rl

Is it safe to assume you load for silhouette? Not target? Do you compete at both?

First, do you have a goal in mind for this prospective load as far as performance goes?

Second, How will you test the load to determine whether or not it meets your expectations?

[40-65rl]

Performance: no more than six inch groups at 500 meters.
Used only for silhouette. I use the 45-70 for mid range target, don't shoot Creedmoor.
I have a 36 inch gong set at 500 meters that I can move between the ranges but usually only test the groups at 385 and 500 meters.
Hope this answers your questions.
Biggest question is bullet diameter for the 409 barrel and the bullet weight.
I shot a friends 385 Brooks Gabe bullets with the 60 grain 3f Swiss at nationals and really liked it.

[Distant Thunder]

2-diameter PPB to fit your chamber, throat and lead. As heavy as you can get that does not exceed 1.320” long.

.060” LDPE wad.

70.0 to 75.0 grains of 1 ½ Swiss.

Brass of your choice. I’m using R-P.

Remington 2 ½ large pistol primers (or whatever works best in your rifle).

That’s just what I would do. YMMV

[40-65rl]

Thanks Jim. I'll give it a try.

[desert deuce]

Well Dick, just logged in to see what was happening while I was gone.

Delighted to see Jim DT Kluskens log on with some information for you on paper patching. If I were of a mind to do paper patch he would be the first competitor I would call for advice.

I can't help you with paper patching. Curiously I began shooting a 40-65 Ron Long in silhouette and target since about 1996 and have transitioned to a standard chambered 40-65. I use iron sights. Both rifles shoot most any bullet I put in it well, if it will chamber in the rifle. Almost hard to find a 400 grain or so bullet that does not shoot well, in fact I have not. Here is what I have settled on. The Saeco #740 bullet, 1.315" long about 406 grains from 1-20 alloy. Somewhere between 55 and 58 grains of either 2F or 1.5 Swiss BY VOLUME. How much powder varies by lot as does compression. The 40-65 seems less sensitive to primers than do the larger calibers and I prefer large pistol primers but occasionally have some large rifle primers that need to disappear and if I load GOEX I use rifle primers. The same volume of GOEX 2F or CTG compressed about .300" is where I started way back when and it shot real well but the fouling in southern Arizona summer was/is annoying. Not a very glamorous or trendy load but hey, the caliber and load hold the current midrange position National Record but only managed a 39.5/40 in silhouette. So I guess what I am saying is you might want to try the load if you want to shoot good scores.

Buena suerte

[AzTBH]

Zack,

Do you use an Over-Primer-Wad with the large pistol primers? Or, do they just seat a little deeper than the rifle primers without any ill effects.

Thanks,
Ross

[kenny s]

I have heard some bad things about using pistol primers in the Sharps. firing pin hole wear problems.
Have any of you had this happen.
and over primer wads? what do you use?
I see a lot of mention...is it worth it?

I'm using Swiss and reg rifle primers.

what say? Ken

[Gussy]

As to the over primer wads:

I did a lot of primer tests a long time back. The over primer wads did even out ignition, BUT, these were inside the case, NOT, punched in with the primer.

I "guessed" this was due to keeping the flash hole clear and consistent. It provides a more consistent ignition.

Primer tests are still on my old web site, castingstuff.com at the bottom of the opening page.

[desert deuce]

Ross, no over primer wad in 40-65 exception would be with 3F, I do use inside the case .009" thick paper wad in larger calibers all granulations with pistol primers and rifle primers. I can't quantify the difference, just have evolved into doing it that way and so far not inclined to do any different in my loading routine. Loading article in upcoming Black Powder Cartridge News on my loading of the 45-90 for long range. It seems at least .oo4" below flush and consistent depth is the most important and I do seat to feel to bottom of primer pocket. I DO NOT crush primers. I just bottom them out.

Can't comment either way on using pistol primers in Sharps Rifles.

Making sure the primer is seated below flush is a safety issue I observe and comply with for all primers, all loading.

[40-65rl]

Deuce,
I too have followed the long and winding road of the 40-65rl to the fork in the road to 40-65W sometime back. I have a great Mike Lewis bullet that is .410, weighs at 425 and is a slight round nose that I prefer and now use. I have the RCBS 400 that is also a .410 and cast at 405. My Steve Brooks bullets, I have two, are both .410 and one is 410 and one is 425. I agree with you, most 40 cal bullets shoot well. I prefer 3f Swiss and although it fouls a bit, I wipe twice between shots and it shoots very well with 60 grains, little compression, .060 Walters wad, bullet just on the lans, large fed pistol primer, no over the primer paper, although I have used it in the past and I didn't see any difference. No issue with the block in the rifle after thousand s of shots using this primer. Just eased into the pocket not crushed into place. Michael Rix Eagle lube.
This load has served me very well in the past and did at Raton, winning the second day of scope in A class, but thinking maybe there is something new on the table out there. My age is getting to me a bit so I must settle for the class I am in now and shoot the best I can all things considered. Really like this new target game I found thanks to Kenny Wasserburger, Robert Garibay, Michael Rix and others.
Dick

[Don McDowell]

I know a guy that has access to some dual diameter patched bullets, that should work well in that rifle. Thing is tho he likes 64 grains of OE 2f in the 40-65 with patched bullets.

[GrumpyBear]

As to the over primer wads:

I did a lot of primer tests a long time back. The over primer wads did even out ignition, BUT, these were inside the case, NOT, punched in with the primer.

I "guessed" this was due to keeping the flash hole clear and consistent. It provides a more consistent ignition.

Primer tests are still on my old web site, castingstuff.com at the bottom of the opening page.

Interesting stuff Gussy, Thanks.

[desert deuce]

For sure Dick, if you are going to punch paper it is critically important that the load shoots to the sights out to 600 yards. AND, if you have yet to see the M-65, (500 Yard target), you will even better understand the benefit of an accurate load. I like Michael's Eagle Lube and I can hear the poor little lambs faintly bleating in my ears when I open a tube.