Model Differences

[Griff]

Well gents, I lurked around here for a while, then finally joined in 2017. I soaked up more information, but I've never actually posted anything until now. Let me thank all of you for all of the instruction that you've given me over the years, even though you didn't know that you were doing it.

I recently (finally) put my name down to order a Shiloh Sharps rifle. Now I have 15 months or so to make all of the decisions involved with finalizing my order. No doubt I'll have a number of questions (hopefully they won't be too stupid), but here's my first:

If I ordered a #3 Sporter and selected a straight stock, a Hartford collar and a pewter forearm tip, is that the same thing as ordering a Hartford Model? Am I missing some differences?

Like I said, I'll likely have more questions, but I'll start with that one.

Thanks again for all of the learning that you've given me.

Griff

[bpcr shooter]

what cal??? I too will be putting an order in next month when I head west for a hunt.

[Yellowhouse]

Well gents, I lurked around here for a while, then finally joined in 2017. I soaked up more information, but I've never actually posted anything until now. Let me thank all of you for all of the instruction that you've given me over the years, even though you didn't know that you were doing it.

I recently (finally) put my name down to order a Shiloh Sharps rifle. Now I have 15 months or so to make all of the decisions involved with finalizing my order. No doubt I'll have a number of questions (hopefully they won't be too stupid), but here's my first:

If I ordered a #3 Sporter and selected a straight stock, a Hartford collar and a pewter forearm tip, is that the same thing as ordering a Hartford Model? Am I missing some differences?

Like I said, I'll likely have more questions, but I'll start with that one.

Thanks again for all of the learning that you've given me.

Griff

Yes it is so just order the Hartford package and save a few bucks. Use that to get the checkered steel shotgun butt.

[bobw]

Sam , hit it. You did not state your intended use for the rifle, if it is going to shoot LR targets you would be better served with a Montana Roughrider. What cartridge is it to be chambered for? bobw

[bobw]

Griif, now that you have acknowledged that you learned from us please post your snail mail addy so we can send you the consulting bill. bobw

[Griff]

Thanks for the clarification, fellas.

Chambering is one of the things I'm wrestling with. I'm glad that I have over a year to decide.

I don't compete, nor do I hunt. I simply appreciate "old west" guns and the experience of shooting them. My ideal (at this point) is to have a rifle that is similar to what would have been a typical buffalo rifle. My first choice, and what I told Shiloh when I made the order, was for 44-77, but I wasn't aware at the time how precious the brass is. I currently form brass for my Uberti 45-75 from Starline 50-90 Sharps cases, but it is pretty tedious. I don't think that I'm willing to take on another caliber that is so troublesome. Brass appears to be sometimes available for purchase, but can still be pretty costly. With all of the 50-90 cases that I have on hand, that is an option, but that can be pretty expensive in the long-run too. Sometimes I wonder how I would like a heavy-recoiling rifle as I age.

The most logical choice is 45-70. I have experience in loading for it and have of the dies, several bullet molds, etc.

At this point (this changes daily), I'm thinking of a Hartford model, standard wood, 32" heavy octagonal barrel in 45-70. I know that 30" was far more typical, but I kind of like the 32" and it wasn't unheard of. As I write that, I'm changing my mind (30 inch? 50-70?). Like I said, it's a good thing that I don't have to decide today...

Griff

[Griff]

Griif, now that you have acknowledged that you learned from us please post your snail mail addy so we can send you the consulting bill. bobw

I missed that response. I was waiting until I learned everything from you guys before I paid the bill, just to keep it simple. I'm keeping track, though. Once I know everything, you'll get a big check.

Griff

[ian45662]

Can’t go wrong with the 45-70 imo. One thing that you may want to consider is that you might want to start competing in the bpcr shooting sports. If you have a rifle with a 32” barrel then it may not make weight for the irons class in silhouette. 30” will in a 45 cal heavy barrel. I am also assuming that you would be getting a heavy barrel so maybe I am being presumptuous. (Did I spell that right?) . So that’s just something else to keep in mind

[BFD]

Griff,
We all want to seduce you into competing, but if you want a good representative buffalo rifle for purposes other than NRA competitions you are on the right track. A .45-70 or .45-90 are great choices with easy brass, historical correctness, and lots of bullets to choose from. If you are not going to shoot a lot of offhand, you might want it even heavier barrel (more money and more time). Someday, a .50-90 in a 20-25# gun would be a lot of fun I think - but that's just me.

Good luck.

[Lumpy Grits]

.45-70 or .45-90 would be a good choice.
I have 34" hvy-bbl Hartford in .45-70, and a 30" hvy-bbl #1 in .45-90.
I shoot the #1, the most. Really like the PG stock.
Gary

[Don McDowell]

Buffalo Arms is offering brass formed and ready to go for the 44-77. So that problem isn't as large as it might seem, especially as you're not contemplating enough brass on hand to shoot a match. Bullet moulds aren't a big deal either, BACO, Brooks, and Accurate can supply you with good patched and grease groove bullet moulds.
Your choice of a Hartford is good to replicate a hide hunt era rifle.

[Griff]

Thanks, Don. I've noticed that about Buffalo Arms, but I wasn't sure when (or how often) they'd come back in stock. My plan is to pretty much wait until the last minute to make the cartridge decision, meanwhile monitoring the status of the components. As we discussed before, I'm enamored with the idea of the 44-77--I love those old bottlenecked cartridges because, if for no other reason, they just look cool (hence my choice of 45-75 in one of my other guns).

I have a small collection of Accurate molds. Tom has been most excellent to work with and now I'm spoiled. Do you have specific mold numbers from him that you could recommend? I'd be looking at a "all-round" bullet, if such a thing exists. We talked about paper patching before and I'd love to try that someday, but I'd probably start with grease-groove bullets. I won't be buying anything for a while, of course. If I did, I'd end up with moulds, dies, brass, etc in about 20 different calibers as I change my mind...

Griff

[BFD]

I do not understand the attraction to .44s, but be that as it may, if you get brass that works and shoot blackpowder, the brass should last you a near lifetime of use - if you are shooting it with black powder anyway. So, if ya got it, you're set.

[Don McDowell]

Griff I haven't looked at Tom's offerings for quite a while, but if he doesn't have something along the lines of a bullet .447 or .448 diameter on the base with a nose diameter no larger than .436 or .437 in front of the driving band he'll likely make it for you. Keep the length at 1.3 or less and it'll shoot to 1000 just fine.
Another option is to have Brooks cut a grease groove bullet with his original creed moor nose, again keeping the length to no more than 1.3 in.

I have one of the RCBS 44 caliber bullets, but the nose diameter is a bit large for the Shiloh barrels, or at least this one is. I believe BACO offers a grease groove bullet of similar design.
You may want to call BACO and ask about their reformed brass to see when they're doing another run, could be like their bullet moulds they show out of stock, as soon as you call they'll build it.

[Kurt]

Griff.

I have a Shiloh in the .44-77 Hartford and mine has a 30" light weight barrel. Top Rifle.
I had mine build for hunting and just plinking, having fun with it. Don't ever cut a light weight barrel short thinking it will not be accurate.
That rifle the way I had it made most likely 95% of the shooters would not want one because of the crescent buttplate and single trigger plus a standard light weight barrel.
When I ordered my first Shiloh I wanted this rifle as you see it but was talked out of it but after 5 Shiloh's I finally got what I wanted in the first place and I never regretted having it build as you see it. The recoil is mild with this 10# rifle and I can't feel any difference between it and my .45-70 #1 with a 30" heavy barrel. The only thing I would have added is checkering because of the straight stock.
The choice is yours.

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