Rifle Primers

[Deanm1874]

I want to mention I have a 1874 sharps rifle I built myself. I purchased a 45-2 7/8” chamber reamer from PTG... a PP chamber reamer. I can’t even chamber a greaser. The chamber mouth measures .472” instead of the more common.482” . I can only chamber bore sized bullets.
I to date... have shot my best groups with CCI 300 LP. Weaker flash. I piled em in at 2 1/2” @ 200 yrds. Not shabby. This is done with no wiping... I use grease cookie and I do blow tube some.
What I’m striving for is... to duplicate what I read on Hiram Berdans report. If I remember right, he fired just under sub MAO at closer ranges... 20 round strings... and kept moving farther and farther distances... final target was 1050 yrds... the rifle had been fired 140 rounds by the time he tested it at 1050 yrds. Never been cleaned.. I took that to mean no wiping,no blow tubing mentioned either..
The last 20 rounds at 1050 yrds measured 20” for a total of 160 rounds fired in that whole test.
Bout the only thing I know of that is different than my materials vrs his??? ....Primers.... his were no where near the power we use today.
His cartridge was different to... 44 caliber, and less powder... but the concept is the same.
I personally do not know of a single person today that can duplicate what he claimed he did in that test using his methods... which were detailed in his report. Tho his cartridge was smaller than mine, my cartridge is fixed just as his were... paper patched , bore sized bullets and using grease cookie.
If there is a person that can do what Hiram Berdan claimed he did in his report . which is ... bore sized pp bullets... grease cookie... no wiping ... 160 rounds.. 20” group @1050 yrds...then I’d like to meet him and ask him how he’s getting the accuracy.
I can find nothing other than the unnecessary powerful “ designed for smokeless powder” primers we use today.
As a whole, I do get good accuracy. Not as good as some I suppose... but not shabby either. I do not shoot in matches, or with other crowds. No desire to really. I shoot with my nephews. We enjoy it. But we don’t get out much.
I just never heard of any one shooting on par as Hiram’s report using his methods.

[bruce m]

british target shooters shot quite well with such rounds as the 461 gibbs without wiping.
in fact wiping was illegal in their matches.
further reading reveals that they did in fact use the blowtube.
martini henry rifles in 577/450 used in the Zulu wars were most certainly shot dirty and in the heat of battle were able to chamber many rounds without either wiping or the blowtube.
possibly not real accurate but did not need to.
their overpowder wad was pure beeswax.
bruce.

[bruce m]

experimenting with primers is always worth trying.
I have found federal lp, Russian large rifle, ccibr large rifle, and others to have preferences with loads, with and without under primer wads.
if the case is failing to obturate, sometimes a careful partial anneal will deal with it.
what you are doing is not too different to what some of the old creedmoor shooters did, which is to use a primed case as a primer, and muzzle load the powder and bullet.
this was common until quite late in the era, even up to 1900 and possibly 1912 at seagirt.
a thing to avoid was charging with powder having forgotten to chamber the case!
bruce.

[Lumpy Grits]

When all is said and done-
It's what the target shows, that counts.
My targets said to keep using the coffee filter 'wad' at the bottom of the case with CCI br2 primers.
Remember the compression of the powder and the OPW will limit primer blast from causing component movement.
G.

[Coltsmoke]

Deanm1874, I am embarrassed, I must have been half asleep when I read your post and didn't fully pay attention to what I was reading. I read it again and realized I must have sounded like an idiot. I was kind of hoping the thread would just die out and that would be the end of it. Since it has resurfaced I'll wear the dunce hat for a week, Rhoades would bust me good for this one.

[Deanm1874]

I sure appreciate all the responses... I picked up on some opinions an what have ya.
Bruce... I found your input especially of interest... nifty. I really enjoy knowledge on methods used back in the good ole days. Appreciate it.

[Kurt]

Deanm1874,
I don't have 1050 yards that I can test out a rifle and loads, 200 is all I have unless I do this at a match.
When I took this .44-100 rifle home from Shiloh with Remington chamber in a 35" heavy barrel I loaded 100 rounds of new 2.6 brass primes with Winchester LR primers and a full load of black powder and my .44 hunting bullets that are made to shoot "dirty" no fouling control. I just wanted to take these .45-2.6 cases formed to .44-2.6 to fit the chamber.
That target was set up at 200 yards and I shot without fouling control, just load and shoot. I did blow down the breach when it got hot a couple times through my hand when the rifle got very hot.
That 100 yard small bore target has a 4" nine ring where most of the 100 shots went into just above the 2" 10 ring.
Shooting dirty can be done with a proper bullet and alloy mix and a little work with load development.

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