Another keeper Roller

Talk with other Shiloh Sharps shooters.

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Clarence
Posts: 2165
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:38 pm
Location: Hill Country, TX

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by Clarence »

The purpose is to keep the hammer down and not allow it to rebound should a primer pierce. I thought at first it might be a variation of a Whitney Rolling Block, but they used square threads and a different locking arrangement. It will be interesting to see if someone can identify it. Does it have any markings?

Clarence
Perentie
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:22 am
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by Perentie »

It looks like it may be nickle plated after a refinish. There is no date markings but in the photo you can see a K under a crown just beneath the extractor retaining screw.
I bought George Laymans book Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of the World.
In the section on Norway and Sweden he shows actions with the Crown over K as being built at the famous Konigsberg Arsenal in Norway.
Its a model 1867 originally in 12.17x44 like that carbine I have.
The Swedish Carl Gustafs has a Crown over a C. The Carlsborg Army Workshop ones have a Crown over CB and Husqvarna just has an H
Mike, any ideas on how to mill the groove for the extractor? I dont have a barrel to copy unless I pull the carbine one.
I have a 40 cal GM barrel fitted now (yesterday) It is not the one I am having made as its taking for ever so thought I would practice on this one.
I made up a stubb barrel 4 inches long drilled it and super glued 320 emery cloth to a close fitting 1/2 inch rod and spun it to square up the breech face.
That seemed to work OK. I did that after reaming the BB pin hole and making a new oversize pin.
Its just this extractor groove that might give me a headache.
bryany
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 7:47 am
Location: Casper, Wyoming

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by bryany »

Looks like a sub standard canoe paddle. Sinks when you let go of it on the creek.

Bryan
“I wonder if God created man because He was disappointed with the monkey.” Mark Twain
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

Now there's a bit of helpful info by an obvious Rolling block "lover"! :lol: :lol: :lol: At least it doesn't look like it was made to crack walnuts aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they probably have been used for a canoe paddle a time or two in emergency situations.
I cut my extractor slots Perentie in the barrel, on rollers, with a Wooddruff cutter in a vertical mill! I mount the barrel in a Forester sight drilling jig then place the sight jig in the mill vice. Use the same technique for dovetail cutting as it is a very easy and accurate method of holding/securing the work.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

Made a rear tang screw for the missing one in the carbine, fit a new main spring , reduced the trigger spring and the pull is just a tad under 8 lbs, about half what it was. Ridiculous pull weights on these original guns! Affixed a 2x pistol scope to the barrel forward of the forearm and am ready to see if the barrel has any hope of some accuracy in the original 43 Spanish cartridge.
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50-70, 43 Spanish on a .348 case, 45-70.
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Aluminum V block scope attachment
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mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

In case any one was wondered about the aluminum V block compressing the barrel, a plug gauge before and after revealed no diameter change. The blocks are four inches long and the V shape allows attachment to either octagon or round, tapered or straight barrels.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

The scope attachment was made to test new/replacement pistol barrels for accuracy and being constructed of aluminum ( which compresses more than steel) it does not constrict the barrel . Later on I realized it would work equally well on BPCR barrels as well .
The one thing I have not tested and could be an issue is barrel node shifting.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

Replaced the trigger spring, glass bedded the forearm and put a sear lift in the hammer. Got the trigger pull down to 4 lbs and it breaks clean.
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mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

When I get this little gun shooting it will be a great little knock about, short ,handy and quite powerful rlfle for AK.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

If it will shoot then I'm gonna make up and try some duplex loads for cold weather full charges. The starting load is 10 grains of Unique alone. I got them from a friend to see if it will shoot in 43 Spanish or if I need to bore it out to 50-70. Either will be a great cartridge for this little carbine.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

Lapped the bore tonight and got it pretty smoothed out and fairly level. The muzzle is a little tighter than I want it with about 550 passes through with 400 grit lapping compound.
Charged lapping slug
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Drilled out 45-70 case for chamber lap guide
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Bearing lap T handle affixed to 5/16 lap rod
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Clamped on lap slug stop so as not to push lap out of bore and loose index.
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I recharge the lap every 50 round trips up the bore and cast a new slug every 250 round trips in the bore. The bore will probably need 1000 to 1200 round trips to be as level as I can get and still keep a bit of choke in the muzzle. 400 grit cuts very slowly but does a nice job overall.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

Probably wonder why I left the stock on and the rifle assembled. When lapping a barrel you do not want to introduce any exterior barrel pressure if possible as the lap will cut a wide spot where ever the barrel is compressed by the vice jaws. I used heavy felt vice lined jaws clamped over the steel barrel ring onto a glass bedded forearm. The barrel is clamped only tight enough to keep it from slipping out with the rod thrusts fore and aft. You will see a another support under the stock toe to keep it from swiveling. This method insures no exterior bore distorting pressure so the lap can do it's work evenly without cutting a wide spot.
I may go up to 600 grit to finish although 400 will do a very nice job as well. I'm still not convinced polishing any finer than 400 grit has any value in reducing a tendency to lead.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

One needs to remember that when you start a lap with a given grain size of lapping compound that by the time it stops cutting the lap grains are worn down to a much finer grit size as they fracture and wear while cutting steel. This same effect will be noticed when using a piece of sand paper on a barrel exterior. It will cut quite aggressively at first then cuts smoother as the grain fractures and the corners wear rounded.
The bore feels pretty good so far and I'll be rather surprised it it won't shoot as well as it ever did , perhaps better as I am removing a tight spot about four inches back from the muzzle that I'm sure has been there since it was bored and rifled at the factory.
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Lumpy Grits
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:58 pm
Location: Springfield, Missouri-U.S.A. Earth

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Great pictures and information here-THANK YOU :!:
Gary
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: Another keeper Roller

Post by mdeland »

Well good Gary, lapping a bore is not hard to do and is within the grasp of most any serious gun nut with a little instruction and tool making ability. If one can cast good lead bullets than that same person can accurately lap a bore.
Truth is a bore does not have to be perfectly smooth, and pit free to be accurate. It does need to be constriction free, pretty straight, level , have a good throat and crown. A bit of choke in the muzzle is usually a good thing as well.
I remember reading an article by I think Ron Snover who was telling of a match rifle he was working on. He commented on how rough the bore was and said he would have never let that barrel leave his shop in such condition but then quipped " The fact remains that this match rifle had won numerous big shooting matches".
I had to change quite a bit of what I thought I knew about barrel interiors some years ago after getting a good bore scope and set of plug gauges. I've seen perfectly smooth (to the eye) bores that leaded up and were not particularly accurate and pitted bores that shot very well and didn't lead up very much or at all. Go figure. What I did find though was differences in diameter will usually make them accumulate lead right after the constriction which is what usually makes chamber throats an offender. That an radial reamer scratches from the chambering job that hook lead.
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