Distant Thunder wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:50 pm
When I hear people say, "Oh, I'd shoot paper patch bullets but it takes too long to load them.", I have to ask, what part? For it to be any easier I'd have to have someone else do it for me!
The same goes for cutting the patches. I cut enough patches in 2 hours one evening this spring to shoot 5 long range matches this year and I still have ten fingers! It's not hard or time consuming and I enjoy each and every part of assembling my paper patch loads and no grease groove cartridges could look so cool! As a bonus, they shoot pretty well!
I agree with the above. I’ve loaded both greasers and paper patched and the latter is a lot faster and easier.
"keep adding powder til it bloodies your nose and blacks your eyes, then back it off bout 5 grains."
SSShooter wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:22 pm
Direction of wrap is one of the easiest to test. Wrap 10 one way and 10 the other and shoot a couple of groups.
You will need a whole bunch more than 10 of each to test anything like that.
Tomklinger wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:03 am
I have three original Creedmoor bullets, 2 are .44 and 1 .45. They are all wrapped so that with a right hand twist barrel they unwrap as they exit the barrel, not wrap tighter. I realize that the outer layers of paper are cut through by the rifling. But the inner is not always cut through and it helps the paper to leave the bullet quicker when it un rolls as it first leaves the barrel instead of wrapping tighter. With a right twist barrel, hold the nose in your left hand and wrap the paper away from you ,or clockwise if you are looking at the bottom of the bullet. You turn the bullet counter clockwise to tighten the paper. That's the theory anyway. I've heared this from long range muzzle loaders as well..
Tom
Tom, the LR muzzleloaders don't matter either. I shoot those also. If you think about it, even if the inner patch is not fully sliced, there really is NO direct to a single wrap. It is exactly the same whichever way it was put on. Think about it a bit. One layer has no direction.
I've enjoyed the last half of this thread immensely, the posts from guys who are using the ppb successfully with high end results drown out the naysayers who continually promote the use of greasers without ever having explored ppb's to the degree some here have. They had greasers back in the 1870's but all the original Creedmoor loads were ppb's Not greasers. Now if we can get some more of the internet experts on this site who promote std chambers to ACTUALLY try a original chamber we will again see a shift in the use of them instead of a bunch of opinions from those who don't and haven't used them. If some of the more accomplished shooters who know everything(according to them) would actually try ppb's and original chambers to the degree they developed their greaser loads we would see a shift back to ppb's period. Too many times I've read stuff posted here, negative about something the poster has no experience with. bobw
Bob how about you bring one of your "original" chambered guns to a target match and show those that use the "standard" chamber just how they're missing out?
bobw, in all honesty, I've never tried greasers in my BPCR rifles, so I'm not exactly positioned to say much about greasers vs paper patches but I do know from experience, paper patches work. I've been playing with them longer than most.
As for chambers, I've shot the orginal style, the standard style and my own style. I like the later best in a target rifle.
Great thread. My 40 Cal with a tight Browning chamber and 14 1/2 twist with a dual diameter bullet per beltfed's
drawing shoots great. Can't imagine anything better. Thanks again to all those that helped .
Don McDowell wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:56 am
Bob how about you bring one of your "original" chambered guns to a target match and show those that use the "standard" chamber just how they're missing out?
This exactly what I'm talking about. Since Halloween of 2015 I've done my match shooting at Baker and Forsyth with a std chamber with 7 degree leade with ppb's. Q ranges to 1000. Before that from 2011 on I used my 45 2 7/8" with ppb's out of a original style Orville chamber and did well with it, better than my target gun 45-2.1 in fact. This last summer I hit 8 different matches. The last 3 local 1-4 hundred yds and used my 40-70 2.1" at those. There are other things in my life I like to do besides spending lots of cash traveling to out of state shooting matches and using damn precious vacation time to do so. Forsyth is doable at 280 mile for me and Baker at 212 . When I retire next year I'll probably start going to Alliance as well. I don't recall seeing you in Mt for any shoots for years so don't bother telling me where to enjoy my sport. My point in case you didn't get it on the original post was no one who has not shot a original chamber for a couple years ought to keep his opinions about THEM to themselves. Give everything an honest chance before you condemn it just because it's not what or the way you wanna do it. I've shot plenty of greasers in my 86 and trapdoor and that is what those guns were made to shoot.
I don't care about shooting greasers in a Sharps original or a Shiloh, I'm interested in trying to get them to preform like they did 150 years ago. Everyone has their own reason and right to compete as they want inside the parameter of the rules. I've only had a good spotter 4 or 5 times in the last 10 years and that by God makes more difference at a match than anything. bobw
Bob I'm not talking about a gong match where a 1/2 bullet on the target or a skip in counts the same as a center hit. I'm also not talking about shooting greasers, Paper patch.
March 1 -11 Ben Avery range Phoenix Arizona, you'll have 9 days to come and prove your point about how much better the original chambers work than the modern chambers.
Does anyone have any pictures they can post of a billet that has been pushed through a loomer chamber or a greaser chamber that has a 7 degree transition? A bullet that has been shot into a pool or a snow bank?
Coltsmoke,
No right or wrong here. I've wrapped both directions myself and didn't see any difference either. It's just a theory I heard about more than once. It made some sense to me, so that's just how I wrap. I need any advantage I can get to keep up with you and the Georgia crew I was living in Nevada when I got my first Shiloh in April 1984, it was a 50-3 1/4. There was only Bell basic brass, unsized,no molds,no sizing dies,no info, no anything. I had no idea how to make a mould, so I taught myself how to make a 750gr. Paper patch mold out of a re-ground 1/2" drill bit. And that's when I taught myself how to paper patch. I've been paper patching ever since. Made a crude sizing die to get the brass small enough to pound into the chamber for fire forming. I can't tell you how glad I am that this sport has evolved as it has! Now all I do when I need ANYTHING is pick up the phone or go online! Life is great....
Tom
Don McDowell wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:37 pm
Bob I'm not talking about a gong match where a 1/2 bullet on the target or a skip in counts the same as a center hit. I'm also not talking about shooting greasers, Paper patch.
March 1 -11 Ben Avery range Phoenix Arizona, you'll have 9 days to come and prove your point about how much better the original chambers work than the modern chambers.
Don,
I don't buy that first sentence argument for a second. each type match has its own advantages and challenges.
As far as the second sentence , is he going to be shooting both chambers or competing against someone with a different skill level.?
that proves nothing.
Brian you really need to get to a paper match and see the difference. Per example in a gong match a bullet on the very edge counts exact came as a pinwheel. In a target rifle match a bullet on the very edge of the LR target counts as 6, center hit counts as 10 with an x.. No way anyone shooting the outside of the target will win the match when other shooters are keeping all their shots in the black.
Different worlds, and the benefit of shooting target you see where each shot hits, as it's marked with a spotting disc. Gong match the target gets pocked up and before a relay is over it gets really tough to say for sure where the bullet struck.
I understand what you are saying Don. but for the sake of this argument, It wouldn't matter if I brought the perfect load and perfect chamber, I'd still shoot at the bottom half of the shooters, unless I had a lot more practice and a real good spotter.
I was living in Nevada when I got my first Shiloh in April 1984, it was a 50-3 1/4. There was only Bell basic brass, unsized,no molds,no sizing dies,no info, no anything. I had no idea how to make a mould, so I taught myself how to make a 750gr. Paper patch mold out of a re-ground 1/2" drill bit. And that's when I taught myself how to paper patch. I've been paper patching ever since. Made a crude sizing die to get the brass small enough to pound into the chamber for fire forming. I can't tell you how glad I am that this sport has evolved as it has! Now all I do when I need ANYTHING is pick up the phone or go online! Life is great.... 