new rifle

[Don McDowell]

Don't sell yourself short, look at the things Aviator has accomplished this year. He shot his very first target rifle match in Phoenix this past March, and has been on a tear ever since.

[Kurt]

I shoot all the matches, paper and iron and the critters now the last two years and I enjoy them all and they all have a challenge getting in the winners circle.. I have shot the Q since 05 and the Big Hill at Baker Mt. and Alliance and those are some of the toughest shoots I have shot at.
At those matches I see the results of some of the top paper shooters end up and down over the years on the score boards and some quit coming because I think that they think they made a bad showing, I cant say for sure but I talked to some why they quit coming and the usual answer is I cant hit squad shooting sitting and I will buy that answer because I shot better prone but those days have been over for me for several years. I now shoot sitting on a stool or not at all.
I don't buy this 1/2 bullet on the iron is easier then staying in score rings being easier.


Bob W.
While I'm on here, you showed me your original 74 once, did you ever measure the groove depth ? it looked like about like a .003"or less.........Kurt

[jackrabbit]

I have seen it several times. An A class silhouette shooter kills 10 pigs with hits all over. Tip of the nose, feet, tail, you name it, all edge hits. I put 9 into a 3" group in the shoulder, had a brain fart and tripped the trigger a little early and send one right through the window. In silhouette, I got beat. if it had been a gong match, I would have got beat, but if it was a midrange match, I might have had a 97-9X and the other fellow would have had a 75. All the matches are fun and have their own things to figure out, but target rifle matches are the king as far as accurate rifles are concerned. No one with a mediocre accurate rifle wins much at a target rifle match. I will forever be impressed with those that shoot great scores in target rifle.
Cody

[charlie young]

Jackrabbit...…..so you are saying that unless you shoot paper, you can't possibly have an accurate rifle?

[DeadEye]

I'm going to go make some popcorn.

Paul

[jackrabbit]

Don't be putting words into my mouth, that is not what I said. A gong or silhouette shooter may have an exceptionally accurate rifle, but if they really want to find out how accurate it is, they need to shoot some paper. By the way, I consider myself a silhouette shooter, but I am constantly amazed watching folks shoot a target rifle match for the first time. I think more often than not, their rifles perform better than they thought they would and it surprises them. Target rifle matches also really improve one's ability to shoot in the wind because you can directly and accurately observe the correlation between a change in a condition and the distance it moves the bullet on the target. The truth is, it would do all silhouette and gong shooters a lot of good if they shot a target rifle match once in a while.
take care, Cody

[charlie young]

With all due respect, as you can see I was asking a question plain and simple. If it wasn't for the fact I have to drive 600 miles to find a paper match I would. I watch the scores from the Wyoming mid range that are posted and am good friends with the Ellingrods and Tryans. Who knows maybe if I can get Greg or Randy to fill me in on what the procedure is to shoot these matches I may just give it a whirl.

[desert deuce]

I understand what you are saying Don. but for the sake of this argument, It wouldn't matter if I brought the perfect load and perfect chamber, I'd still shoot at the bottom half of the shooters, unless I had a lot more practice and a real good spotter.

(Semtav)

Shooting well in target matches at the longer distances with a BPTR rifle is 96% mental. Shooting poorly is 100% mental. Going to a target shoot where everyone is a Master Class Shooter can do nothing but improve your shooting. You learn something at each match. You have to start somewhere and the only thing that will keep you back is that 4% you threw away before you left home. You defeated yourself mentally by placing yourself in the lower half. If 80% of the shooters at a Creedmoor Match are Master Class be thrilled if you shoot in the middle of the pack.

[Aviator]

Don't sell yourself short, look at the things Aviator has accomplished this year. He shot his very first target rifle match in Phoenix this past March, and has been on a tear ever since.

Thanks, Don!
Goes to show even a blind pig can find a few acorns! And I haven't even tried paper-patching yet.....

I plan to be back on the road to Phoenix toward the end of February (and it's a mite further than 600 miles).

[bpcr shooter]

I will have a 40-82 silhouette, arriving sometime around xmas, It will be a #1 roller, sport a 34in barrel (from Green Mtn), orig wood, not sure on sights, was told .400/.408 for the barrel. anyone have any luck PP'ing for this round?? I believe its a 1-14 twist.

[semtav]

I didn't mean to turn this into an argument about the merits of Match A vs Match B.

It has nothing to do with the original discussion.

all thats been proven so far is that the original shiloh chamber is very accurate for PPing

It has NOT proven or disproven anything about the Orville chamber.

"Nobody important" is using that chamber only means just that, unless "everybody important' has tried it and can't get it to shoot .

[GrumpyBear]

Don't be putting words into my mouth, that is not what I said. A gong or silhouette shooter may have an exceptionally accurate rifle, but if they really want to find out how accurate it is, they need to shoot some paper. By the way, I consider myself a silhouette shooter, but I am constantly amazed watching folks shoot a target rifle match for the first time. I think more often than not, their rifles perform better than they thought they would and it surprises them. Target rifle matches also really improve one's ability to shoot in the wind because you can directly and accurately observe the correlation between a change in a condition and the distance it moves the bullet on the target. The truth is, it would do all silhouette and gong shooters a lot of good if they shot a target rifle match once in a while.
take care, Cody

I certainly found this to be true when I shot at the midrange match in Cheyenne in August, what I thought was a good load,(proven at 200 yards, limits of my home range), found out at 600 yards the bullets were tipping and accuracy was non existent,at a silhouette match I would probably just have blamed the misses on me. It was an eye opener for me for sure.


Good to try the different types of matches, to see how your loads/rifle works at all of them.

[Don McDowell]

I didn't mean to turn this into an argument about the merits of Match A vs Match B.

It has nothing to do with the original discussion.

all thats been proven so far is that the original shiloh chamber is very accurate for PPing

It has NOT proven or disproven anything about the Orville chamber.

"Nobody important" is using that chamber only means just that, unless "everybody important' has tried it and can't get it to shoot .

This brings us back to the challenge to Mr. Watts. If a lot of us have tried the original style chamber and found them to be more of a handicap than a help, maybe we're just missing something and it would be good for everybody for him or someone else to bring one to a target rifle match where there are measurable result, and show us the error in our ways.

[Don McDowell]

Don't sell yourself short, look at the things Aviator has accomplished this year. He shot his very first target rifle match in Phoenix this past March, and has been on a tear ever since.

Thanks, Don!
Goes to show even a blind pig can find a few acorns! And I haven't even tried paper-patching yet.....

I plan to be back on the road to Phoenix toward the end of February (and it's a mite further than 600 miles).

Aviator, good lord willing and the creek don't rise (aka ol man winter cooperates and doesn't bury us in snow) I look forward to meeting you in Phoenix.

[Kurt]

Don,
The only way to really work this out would be to let shooters that are on the top of the score board usually after a match like Jim Kluskens aka Distant Thunder or Brent Danielson that are consistent let them use a rifle and let them work up a accuracy load with that rifle and take it to a couple matches to get an average using it.
As far as bulls eye paper or gong shoots they both have a round aiming point. Paper on average has a larger black bull than most of the white gongs have. When I see a hit on the edge I react the same as I would when I see the spotter disk on the edge of a paper target. A high score at both matches is a winner anyway you look at it. Like I said I use both chambers in rifles of the same caliber made by different manufactures, Shiloh, CPA, and Browning they all shoot well. The chamber that has put me the highest on the finish has been my original clones I had reamers made from, The long funnel transitions. I have them from 4 degree/1.5 to Orville's 7 degree funnel using his reamer on one rifle.
Shoot a rifle combination what ever you have and enjoy the matches you use them at, paper or iron. They all have their rewards at the end and they all are tough to get that reward at the end.
Kurt