fire forming

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bpcr shooter
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fire forming

Post by bpcr shooter »

I was going to get some new strarline brass, and as I shoot PP, I need to have fired cases, is there a way to fire form these other than loading and shooting??
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Re: fire forming

Post by BFD »

don't worry about fire forming. Just FL size them, load and shoot for score. Don't make it hard. I shot my Starline with paper patches for 3 yrs before I annealed them or trimmed them or did anything to them. Load'em and shoot'em
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Re: fire forming

Post by TexasMac »

Fire forming is unnecessary if you resize in steps to determine the minimum adjustment of your full length resizing die. I.e., using the trial and error method, determine the correct resizing die setting in order to minimally reform the case so it just barely slides fully into the chamber. If the diameter of the case neck ends up too small afterwards, use an expander plug to enlarge the neck to accept the bullet or to the maximum diameter that will fit.

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Re: fire forming

Post by bpcr shooter »

sorry I didnt give you all the info :( :( ............ I shoot DDPP bullets and the base is sized for a fired case.
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Re: fire forming

Post by Lumpy Grits »

Make sure you anneal the case mouth before fire forming.
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Re: fire forming

Post by semtav »

try an expander plug . Buffalo arms sells them. I use a .461 plug for my Patched to Groove loads when I'm using new brass.
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Re: fire forming

Post by ian45662 »

It looks like I am in the minority on this but some testing I have done with my particular loads indicate that fire formed brass does best. More testing is needed to say for sure but for me I won’t take virgin brass to a match. Having said that this past season I have not put up any great scores in silhouette. The couple long range matches I have been to though I have done well I think. I also seem to have a sharp drop off in accuracy if I don’t anneal after each firing which again puts me in the minority on this subject but I have tried not annealing and the results were poor.
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Re: fire forming

Post by bpcr shooter »

thanks semtav. I will take a fired piece and check the dia and chuck up some steel in the lathe this weekend just to see what I can do, maybe make a long expander that goes all the way down to the base of the cartridge. If that doesn't work, has anyone used trail boss to fire form?? if so how and how much?? thanks guys!!!
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Re: fire forming

Post by TexasMac »

ian45662 wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:06 am It looks like I am in the minority on this but some testing I have done with my particular loads indicate that fire formed brass does best. More testing is needed to say for sure but for me I won’t take virgin brass to a match. Having said that this past season I have not put up any great scores in silhouette. The couple long range matches I have been to though I have done well I think. I also seem to have a sharp drop off in accuracy if I don’t anneal after each firing which again puts me in the minority on this subject but I have tried not annealing and the results were poor.
I agree with you. Nothing gives you a better fit than fire forming the brass. But you can get real close by full length resizing only enough that the case just slides into the chamber. I've used both techniques & cannot measure the accuracy advantage of one over the other. BTW, I also anneal after each firing and have found that it improves accuracy. From match to match It's more of a subjective thing since I cannot provide good hard data on how it affects accuracy but have proven to myself that the more I shoot without annealing the more accuracy drops off. I believe it's a neck tension bullet release issue. So I anneal after each firing with a Bench Source annealer which makes it fast & easy.

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Re: fire forming

Post by Perentie »

If one is slip fitting bore diameter PP into a fired case from a tight chamber each time with no case forming whatever. I doubt there would be a need for annealing would there?
I am not annealing and the cases seem to seal with no signs of gas leakage.
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Re: fire forming

Post by BFD »

Perentie wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:17 pm If one is slip fitting bore diameter PP into a fired case from a tight chamber each time with no case forming whatever. I doubt there would be a need for annealing would there?
I am not annealing and the cases seem to seal with no signs of gas leakage.
Unless you are seeing substantial blowby around the neck of your brass, no, annealing is not necessary for PPBs in my opinion. Ian has a different take, but I'm not sure why.

For a year, I annealed at every firing because I made myself an annealing machine and wanted to use it. I found no upside and did get some case stretching, or so it seemed. I have returned to my anneal every 3 yrs whether they need it or not, but that's all.
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Re: fire forming

Post by ian45662 »

Brent I wonder if maybe it could be because your shooting the tighter chamber than I am? My case mouths get a good work out. They go from a fired diameter of .481-.484 (depending on which rifle ) down to a .473 so they can hold my boolits. Wonder if that might have something to do with our difference in loading techniques
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Re: fire forming

Post by BFD »

ian45662 wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:06 pm Brent I wonder if maybe it could be because your shooting the tighter chamber than I am? My case mouths get a good work out. They go from a fired diameter of .481-.484 (depending on which rifle ) down to a .473 so they can hold my boolits. Wonder if that might have something to do with our difference in loading techniques
Quite possible. That is an obvious and fairly significant difference. I have never noticed the need to anneal in my older .45s, but I've never campaigned them like i have the highwall and M77. Maybe those guns could benefit from it.
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Re: fire forming

Post by TexasMac »

ian45662 wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:06 pm Brent I wonder if maybe it could be because your shooting the tighter chamber than I am? My case mouths get a good work out. They go from a fired diameter of .481-.484 (depending on which rifle ) down to a .473 so they can hold my boolits. Wonder if that might have something to do with our difference in loading techniques
My Browning .40-65 is a similar situation. The "generous" chamber neck diameter results in the fired case neck OD of .434-.435" which is too large. So, when using a .409" or .410" grease groove bullet, I have to neck size the case OD down then expand the neck sufficiently to hold the slip fitted bullet. So the necks undergo 3 dimensional changes per firing

The necks in my Shiloh Sharps .40-65 are reloaded as fired so I doubt that annealing after each firing is as important although I do it anyway since, as I noted earlier, my annealer is fast and easy to use & I'm confident of having the same slip fitted neck tension as slight as it may be.

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Re: fire forming

Post by ian45662 »

It makes sense in to me
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