new rifle for friend...

[bpcr shooter]

So a friend of mine has taken the liking to the BPCR's and has shown interest in the orig Hepburn's, new Hepburn (from C Sharps), and the shiloh's. He was looking to not have he same rifle as everyone else, hence my suggestion of the Hepburn. He would like a cartridge to be well capable of 1k yard shooting. I suggested the 44-100 or the 44-90. What are your thoughts on the Hepburn s when compared to the other rifles as far as quality, strength, etc?? I know very little of the Remington's and I was unable to find much info on them so any help would be great. thanks Matt

[firefighter1990]

From a design standpoint: Hepburns are very strong! If it's a new production rifle such as C Sharps, DZ arms, or Shiloh then all will be plenty strong for blackpowder chamberings as modern metallurgy and machining tolerances are far superior than that of 150 years ago. If shooting prone then the absence of a drop-lever-trigger gaurd may be less movement to reload. Plus the Hepburn design has a self rebounding hammer. But a Hepburn doesn't have a camming action to the breach block. Some may argue that a Hepburn isnt as beautiful as a sharps or it doesn't carry the glory and romance of a "buffalo rifle" but to each their own. I personally favor a rolling block but I would have no problem picking up any rifle of the Victorian era for whatever I may be shooting or hunting. A bigger deciding factor maybe the stock design and it's fit to the user. Remington rifles have more drop in the stock than say sharps and Winchester.

The 44-2.6" straight is a historically accurate Hepburn chambering and although it's a straight forward cartridge to make and a ballistic twin to the sharps 45-2.6"; it is something different from the main crowd. Historically: Hepburns as well as Winchester's High walls were chambered in a plethora of cartridges.

[Don McDowell]

If a Hepburn is what he wants either find an original that has been either rebuilt or kept in good condition. Or order one from DZ. What ever you do stay the hell as far away from a C Sharps as possible.. That's coming from the voice of experience.

[bpcr shooter]

thanks firefighter for the info!! Really he likes them all... I did ask him about the Rolling block and he had said "It just doesnt trip my trigger" and thats ok, thats why they made more than one design.

Don, I was out in Big Timber this past fall and was looking at there Hepburn and it looked ok, what was wrong if ya dont mind me asking?? just looking for info as to why/why not buy.

Have a great day all......matt

[Don McDowell]

Springs bad, trigger parts weren't finished, and excessive headspace to the point it may or may not fire if, and when the triggers wouldn't tie up.

[semtav]

Before he invests a lot of money in a "different" rifle i would highly recommend he find someone that has that particular rifle and try it out at the type of shooting he is planning on doing. He may find his perfect rifle does not function with ease needed when one is a new shooter and soon he may become disallusioned with the whole game.

I say this because i started with a Browning action. Very simple to operate and one could pay attention to other things. When i got the Shiloh, it took remembering a few more things about the action. I have a Wesson #1 and Although it is a neat action, I would not recommend that action to anyone starting out in BPCR.

[beltfed]

Sorry about this on your forum, Kirk, but:
I started out BPCR with a Browning 1885 BPCR rifle, cal 45-70.
WAY TO GO TO START UP if you can find one nowadays. A "ready to go" rifle out of the box.
The Tang sight is very acceptable, globe front takes common lyman 17A
aperture besides the inserts it comes with.
Still have it in back of the safe.
That is Until you try a 40-65......Again , the Browning, if you can find one.

Both the Brg BPCR 45-70 and the 40-65 are very good shooters for starters at a reasonable price, even now.
They came with quality Badger barrels.


In any event, get a Shiloh in either caliber for starters. Barrels are tops , bar none.
Workmanship is tops, and Tradition....


beltfed/arnie

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Something different go for a Shiloh 1877 in 45-100. Excellent rifle and the recoil is totally different in 1877, very manageable.

Kenny Wasserburger

[BFD]

I have a Wesson #1 and Although it is a neat action, I would not recommend that action to anyone starting out in BPCR.

Why not the Wesson #1?
I've handled one of Steve Earle's and it seems pretty darn nice and a great BPCR rifle.

I think your "try before you buy" advice is really good however. Especially if a scope is involved. Sidehammers for a right hander can be a PITA if you have a scope and are futzing about a lot with bore critters and wiping between shots in addition to loading. Totally doable, but the side hammer and auto cocking and auto firing pin extraction features are three of the more important things to consider in an action.

[semtav]

Why not the Wesson #1?
I've handled one of Steve Earle's and it seems pretty darn nice and a great BPCR rifle.

I think the biggest issue is the falling block locking mechanism. It isnt locked when the lever is up, you have to make sure it is locked each time. Failure to do that results in a primer strike on the edge of the primer as the blovk falls open. I have no idea what would happen if the primer ignited while this was happening. And, although it does have a little camming action on the shell, using it wiill result in slamming the lock shut. Not a recommended accurance.
Putting that in the hands of a new competitor with the clock running down and im pretty sure some frustrating issues will arise.

[BFD]

I had no idea. Glenn Fewless's Meerkat Wesson is beautiful as all get out, and he shoots it VERY well, but I didn't know about these other issues. Learn something every day.

[bpcr shooter]

so we have located a Hepburn, the claim is that's its real, is there a way to tell if its real?? or how old it is?? we also have a line on a few shilohs so we will visiting those people for sure!!!

[Perentie]

I had an original Hepburn. The double set triggers can be a pain. Check them out.

[art ruggiero]

get a basic 1874 shiloh brand new for under 2500.00 can't go wrong. the same workmanship as an 8000.00 one and plenty of free help on what to do with it best art

[opencountry]

I hesitated in adding my comment since I don't post often, but this is my thought. Why go with something different, especially since everyone else at the matches are using what produces the best results? OK, maybe I should say 'nearly everyone'. For shooting up to 1,000 yards why not an 1874 Shiloh in .45-90, or a 110; I own both and wouldn't part with either. I've used them both in local and state matches at 3,4,600 and 1K shoots. They're both laser shooters.

Robert