2020 Frostbite 200 yd Postal

[Distant Thunder]

Cpt,

Oh, that is a nice setup you have there! It looks like a place I could spend the rest of my life in and be a happy man!

I tried shooting off the dining room table out the window, figuring I'd be close to the coffee pot that way, but for some reason my wife took objection to the idea and shut it down before I could fire the first shot! Women!

The only choice I had was to build a little shack below the hill behind the house. I'm limited to 200 meters but that is far enough to be able to do testing and load development. I've had if something 20 years and I built if for BPCR. I can shoot off the bench or open the door (In the warmer weather) and shoot prone. It's only 8' x 10' so I can't get too carried away with conveniences, but it does keep the rain (and snow) off my bench and my head. I was a little afraid that if I built it too big and comfortable that I would run the risk of being booted out of the house and the dog and I would be living in the shack. Not that it would be a bad thing!

We are back in the part of the cycle where we're getting a goodly amount of snow and it does tend to restrict my movements in the winter. We had about 20"+ on the ground at the end of December, then most of that melted by mid January. In the last two weeks it's trying real hard to make up for lost ground! I'll have to shovel the garage roof off this week, there over 2 feet on it now and another big storm would make me a bit uneasy. The house has had over 3 feet on it in the past (80s) and it was never a problem, garage I start to worry after about 24". It's a lot easier to shovel snow than build a new garage. Not to mention the tongue lashing I'd get for not keeping up with it! That would likely leave a mark!

Last year several buildings in the area collapsed with the weight. My brothers place lost a big warehouse! The neighbor's barn had the roof cave in! Actually two did here on my road. It's really bad when it rains in the winter, that snow will hold a lot of water and therefore weight. That's what happened last year. Winter can be unforgiving and it can come at you fast and hard. Sure is beautiful though!

[semtav]

T

Yesterday I took my Win. 52 to the range to try out the new-to-me Lyman 25x STS. The wind was off and on and here and there. Nothing steady or predictable. The afternoon yielded no groups I would want to report; and I don't have to, because the rifle is disqualified anyway!

well you could always enter it in the vintage 22 target rifle category







So there's a tour of my shooting shack on a morning when there's not much else to talk about. My wife says I talk too much. I hope I'm not boring you guys.

Curl

I don't know how you guys can live like that !! If I can't see for 20 miles, I get claustrophobia !!

Nice shooting shack tho !!!!

[CptCurl]

well you could always enter it in the vintage 22 target rifle category

Didn't know we had such a category, but there's a lot I don't know.

Heck, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to shoot jacketed military ammo.

I don't know how you guys can live like that !! If I can't see for 20 miles, I get claustrophobia !!

Yeah, part of the reason I can only get 200 yards.

[semtav]

Didn't know we had such a category, but there's a lot I don't know

Well we kinda make things up as we go.
Especially for the privelege of seeing those fine old rifles
Im going to take my old Winchester knockoff Rossi 22 pump out and see if I can hit anything at 200 yds this afternoon. I havent shot it in over 40 years.

[Distant Thunder]

"I don't know how you guys can live like that !! If I can't see for 20 miles, I get claustrophobia !!"

Well I'll take the hill and trees any day, then throw in a little farm land and I'm a happy man!

Today actually turned out to be a little warmer than yesterday here in the northwoods, right around 40 at the high. Winds were still out of the north, straight headwind for me, but running at 7-10 mph with gusts to 15-20. We did have some sun today but I was inside eating lunch for that 20 minute period. As the day went on the clouds got thicker and darker, by 4 o'clock it was pretty hard to see with iron sights so my second rifle today was not too good.

I did manage to test the other two powders I had loaded for my .40-65 and the first one was a big surprise. This was Swiss 1 1/2 lot 210.113, which I have not known to be much good for accuracy. I had tested this lot is my .45-70 this past summer at 1000 yards and I could just barely keep 19 of the twenty rounds on a standard Creedmoor target, one did drop low in the dirt. I switched to my standard load and put 3 inside the 10-ring. Then I grabbed some bullets I had never shot before and had just seated on top of my standard load. I didn't even touch the sights and I put 3 of those inside the 10-ring. Those six shots were all either 10s or Xs and with the 210.113 Swiss 1 1/2 I could just hold the paper. So when I setup this morning to shoot a group with this "bad" powder I didn't expect much. This is what I got!

01-25-20-4.jpg

What's up with that! The group measured 1.900" and that's mostly because of the one I broke low and right. Otherwise it would be more like 1.750" which would be closing pretty close to Rick's excellent group.

One thing I did was I upped the charge to 76.0 grains which gave about 3/16" compression and that I did based on results others have had with some of these less dense lots of Swiss. Apparently that works!

The other powder I tested today was some Goex 2F. I picked up a case awhile back because it is less expensive than Swiss and it has always worked pretty well for me. I had never loaded this lot before so I just started with a 1/4" compression and a mag primer. I'll work from there and see what I can get from this lot. For whatever reason the Goex shot low and left from the Swiss and I leaked two just off the edge of the paper. It's not a great group and I didn't have my calipers with me at the target so I just measured it with a tape measure and that will have to be close enough at 4 7/16".

01-25-20-5.jpg

I also hauled my .50-70 out to shoot a group but with the fading light and the blade front sight I didn't do so well with a 9+ inch group. That was mostly because the last shot dropped about 5" low of the group. I'll try that rifle again when the light is better.

With Coltsmoke and Woody threatening to get out there again I was hoping to get under that 2-inch mark and I was lucky to squeak in a good group! Every little bit helps when you are closing in on the 2-inch mark. Gotta keep the pressure on!

[Distant Thunder]

The rifle and sights I used today are the same as yesterday, CSA 1875, .40-65, paper patch bullet with a Leatherwood 4X scope in DZ mounts.

C Sharps 1875 40-65-2.jpg

[semtav]

Nice shooting Jim !!

I should have known better to go out late in the afternoon with it being so sunny, but couldn't pass up the great weather.
Sun at that time really washes out my target.
Wanted to see what my daughters load was doing so I shot it first.
After 4 shots I realized I wasn't going to be able to make a group with the sun washing out the red bull and the thin front aperture so I put a thick front aperture in and started over. wasn't great, but doable til I get a different light.

4.5"
Browning HW 40-65
22 gr 4227
Bullshop NASA lube
Brooks 400 gr Money Bullet

Forgot to take pictures but looks just like the rest of the HW's

Nicoles 40-65.jpg

[semtav]

Then Wanted to take another run with my 45-90 with the good Hoke sight on it.

First three shots were excellent !!
Then the wind came up a little and drifted the 4th shot to the right, so I shot two more there.
Still grouping great but the match group was done, so I added a minute and a half left windage and got it back just a tad too much but figured this load is a keeper. -------And Then !!!!!! And then !!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu7ciTd8V80

Along came uncle Murph and things went to Hell

Suddenly I was 3-4 inches high and no idea why. after two shots up there, I just stopped and checked everything I could think of. Nothing was loose.
So I took one more look at the target !!!! Duhhhhh!!!!!!!! Made the mistake of taping a new cardboard backing on my target. and it didn't stay.

Loose target.jpg

So I just shot up the rest of my shells moving the sight around including one that I went the wrong way on and got in top of my 40-65 load.

45-90 miscue.jpg

Tried out 4 different brands of 22 shells in my Rossi, but figured out the jackrabbits are pretty safe out at 200 yds.

[gunlaker]

That's one heck of a target Jim! It is interesting how the .40-65 really liked that lot of powder yet the .45-70 didn't. Do you use a softer alloy in the .40-65 by any chance?

Chris.

[Distant Thunder]

Chris,

No, it's the exact same alloy, 17:1. I do use an elliptical in my .45-70 and in the .40-65 it is a round nose, an ODG bullet design.

EPP 4B.jpg

ODG 40 cal 2-D PPB.jpg

Other than that it's the same primer, same wad material and same paper (9 lb. onionskin 100% cotton). Not that those things would make any difference. The only thing I can figure is that the somewhat heavier compression helps. I only have 1 lb. of that lot that I had bought from a friend with the idea of seeing if I could make this crap work in my .40-65 and help him out! I haven't even done any load development yet! He told me to try more compression and I did. It would interesting to go back and try that in my .45-70. I may have to see if I can get some more of that lot from him, like a whole case! Of course now the price will go up! Can't win!

[gunlaker]

That is interesting. The .40-65 is a dual diameter bullet but the .45-70 a bore diameter I believe? So it will seal the pressure more quickly and easily I suspect. I'll bet that the "bad" batch of powder has a different burn rate that affects the dual diameter bullet less.

As an aside, my 010.213 lot works very well in my grease groove shooting rifles, but quite a bit less good in my .45-70 PP rifle. I compress it very much for GG bullets and it is probably the best lot I've ever had for that purpose.

Chris.

[Distant Thunder]

Chris,

There is no doubt in my mind that the 2-diameter design has significant advantages in grease groove chambers. Less lead has to move around from ignition through the trip down the barrel and they definitely seal better right from the start. They also have some initial resistance when loaded so the groove diameter section is up against the rifling lead which is how I load them in my .40-65. And yes the .45-70 bullet is a patch to bore straight sided bullet, but it's a tight pp only chamber in that rifle.

I did use that same bullet in my .45-90 with excellent results, it was scary accurate. I often wonder how a 2-diameter ppb would work in my .45-90. I hope to find out in the near future.

Of all the ppb I've worked with over the past dozen years or so that ODG design has been the easiest to get very good accuracy with. I like it!

[CptCurl]

That's one heck of a target! Congratulations.

Curl

[semtav]

BPCR

Scope

1.625... R. Moritz............CPA ? ..........38-50............59.5 gr Swiss 1.5....GG
1.90.....Distant Thunder....CS75...........40.65.............76 gr Swiss 1.5......PP (Lot 210-113)
2.125...Distant Thunder.....CS75...........40-65............72 gr Swiss 1.5.......PP (Lot 043.313)
2.410...Coltsmoke............CPA............45-70............82 gr Swiss 1.5.......PP
2.57.....Aviator...............SR74...........45-70............74 gr Swiss 2F........GG
2.804... Woody...............HW.............45-70............61.5 gr Swiss 2F .....GG
2.804... Coltsmoke.......... ?...............40-65............68 gr Swiss 1.5........PP
2.81.....Aviator..............SR74............45-70...........74 gr Swiss 2F.........GG
4.01-....Distant Thunder....CS75............40-65...........72 gr Swiss 1.5........PP(Lot 18/01/2016)
4.437....Distant thunder....CS75............40-65............73 gr Goex 2F.........PP (Lot 02-65/13MA05B)
4.47.....Distant Thunder....CS75............40-65...........72 gr Swiss 1.5........PP (Lot 250.205)


Iron
2.592...Kurt.................A77..........45 2.6..........100 gr OE 1.5........PP
2.750...D Gazaway.........HW ? ........40-65...........63 gr Swiss 1.5......GG
3.043...Woody..............SR77..........45-90..........69.5 gr Swiss 2F.....GG
3.108...DAG45-70..........SR74.........45-70...........66 gr Swiss 1.5......GG
3.25....semtav..............HW...........45 2 7/8.......105 gr Swiss 1F......PP
3.348...DAG45-70..........SR74.........45-70...........66 gr Swiss 1.5......GG
3.974...DAG45-70..........SR74.........45-70...........66 gr Swiss 1.5......GG (8 shots 1.487 vertical)
4.205...DAG45-70..........SR74.........45-70...........66 gr Swiss 1.5......GG
4.25....Firefighter1990...SR74.........40 2 5/8........100 gr OE 1.5........PP (3.5 vert)
4.50....Semtav.............HW...........40-65...........22 gr IMR 4227......GG
4.599...DAG45-70..........SR74.........45-70...........66 gr Swiss 1.5 .....GG
4.5......SFogler............SR74..........45-2.6..........87 gr Swiss 1.5......GG (2 7/8 for 9 shots) (2 3/4 vert)
4.5......SFogler............SR74..........45 2.6..........84 gr Swiss 1.5......GG
5.00....semtav.............HW............45-90..........95 gr Swiss 1.5......PP
5.228...Woody.............SR77..........45-90...........70.5 gr Swiss 2f.....GG
6.75.... Kurt...............SR74..........45-70...........71 gr Swiss 1.5.......PP
7.50....semtav.............HW...........45-90...........95 gr Swiss 1.5.......PP (9 shots 1.5 vertical)
11.50...SFogler.............SR-C.........45-70...........62 gr Swiss 1.5.......GG



.22 Rifle


Scope
2.686...Woody..........LW............SK Match
3.188...GrumpyBear...CPA...........Lapua X (2.208 vertical)
4.10....GrumpyBear...CPA............RWS R50
4.754... Woody.........LW............SK Match
5.428... Kurt...........CPA...........Norma Match
9.625... Kurt...........CPA...........Norma Match



Iron
4.50.....Aviator.....................M39A................?
5.20....CptCurl.....................HW..............Fed Grand Match
5.31....CptCurl.....................HW............. RWS R50
5.320...Distant Thunder............CS75...........Eley Target




Military

Big Bore

6.250... Woody.......TD........45-70...........58 gr Swiss 2F ....GG
7.125....SFogler......SR-M.....44-77...........62 gr Swiss 1.5....GG (4.50 --9shots)
13.375.. Kurt.........TD........45-70...........69 gr KIK 1.5 ......PP



Small Bore

5.748...Woody........Krag........30-40..........20.4 gr 5744........311284
7.375...semtav......Carcano.....6.5 X 52.......14 gr 4227..........BRP 268469 (not NOE)
7.75....DAG45-70....M1..........30 carbine....14 gr A5744.........Saeco #302
11.25..CptCurl........M1Garand...30-06......................Greek FMJ
11.75..CptCurl........M1917.......30-06----------------------Greek FMJ
13.75..CptCurl........SMLE.........303........................German FMJ
www.quigleymatch.com/local-matches.html
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[CptCurl]

I have a lot to learn about BPCR techniques.

I have a lot of experience and success with loading BP for British sporting rifles, both double rifles and single shot rifles. Basically, my theory has been to duplicate the original factory loads, since these were the loads for which the rifles were designed and regulated. This has worked well for the purpose intended. I have loads that shoot to the sights, that regulate two barrels to shoot together, and that control fouling so that 20 or more rounds can be fired without any change of accuracy or point of impact.

I'm learning that BPCR is a completely different game. It has piqued my interest in the past couple of years. In my mind it is more akin to serious bench rest competition and not so similar to the use of British express rifles for big game hunting.

Then you've got the Scheutzen routine. Back in the day, those guys stood on their hind legs and shot targets offhand at 200 yards and further. And they had competitions for big money! On the ASSRA forums somebody recently posted links to several articles from the American Rifleman, published back in the '50s telling the story of Adolph Niedner, the gunsmithing he did, and the competitions at Walnut Hill. Fascinating!

As for Scheutzen? I probably couldn't consistently hit a washtub offhand at 200 yards!

This month I acquired a nice BPCR rifle - a Ballard Rifle & Cartridge Co. No. 7 Ballard .45-70.



In the coming months I will be trying to learn how ammo for this rifle should be loaded. Maybe over time you guys can give me some pointers. It's intimidating to be here among experts at this sport. I don't ever expect to compete at 1000 yards. Nor do I expect to master every single detail of loading techniques required. I do hope to find myself able to shoot decent groups at 100 or 200 yards, and maybe beyond. I know nobody who participates in this sport, so my guidance will be by my own effort and what I can glean from people such as the members of this forum. I suspect you don't suffer fools gladly.

I've been reading all I can.

Curl