Advice for building Rolling Block

[4065inMD]

UPDATE: I purchased a 1867 {1872} Carl Gustav in 8x58RD. New Green Mountain 3-1/2 barrel comes today and I dropped my action off this morning at my blacksmiths. Yep, a real blacksmith. He is color case hardening the receiver. Once I get it back, it all goes to the gunsmith for the new barrel install and dovetailing in the for the sights. I have decided on Treebone stock set. It will eventually be wearing a DZ 8x scope so not going crazy with open sights. I have my Shiloh Sharps for that. Both rifles will be 40-65.
Thanks for all of the advice.

[Kurt]

It might have been better to fit the buttstock to the receiver before casing it.

[Woody]

Yep, from somebody whose has stock both ways.

Woody

[John Bly]

Color case hardening, bluing, stock finishing are all finishing touches that should be done after all fitting is complete including the barrel and stock. Be sure to do things in the proper order to ensure a good looking job when complete.

[Woody]

If the receiver is finished, then the wood will be proud when I stock a rifle. If the receiver is not finished, then I can take the wood "all the way".

Woody

[mdeland]

I do my own case coloring and stocking and you can count on the long tangs moving some what at the quench (warp-age) no matter how well you block them and as a consequence it's better to stock them after casing for the closest fit. I used to send all my case coloring out of state to have done but the warpage was quite sever in a couple of the jobs I had a professional outfit do. I block all the actions I personally do with cross bracing and they still will warp to some degree.

[mdeland]

I do my own case coloring and stocking and you can count on the long tangs moving some what at the quench (warp-age) no matter how well you block them and as a consequence it's better to stock them after casing. I used to send all my case coloring out of state to have done but the warpage was quite sever in a couple of the jobs I had a professional outfit do. I block all the actions I personally do with cross bracing and they still will warp to some degree.

[4065inMD]

I do my own case coloring and stocking and you can count on the long tangs moving some what at the quench (warp-age) no matter how well you block them and as a consequence it's better to stock them after casing. I used to send all my case coloring out of state to have done but the warpage was quite sever in a couple of the jobs I had a professional outfit do. I block all the actions I personally do with cross bracing and they still will warp to some degree.

That is how I saw it too. I figured there would be some warpage and fitting the stock after would be best.

[Woody]

I wonder how all of the high dollar English doubles are built? I wonder how the current Shiloh's are built? I wonder how most every custom rifle is built?

I hate to say it Mike but I think you are wrong on this one. Maybe your preference, but most everyone else would disagree.

Woody

[mdeland]

It is only my opinion Woody having also stocked both ways and my guess is that the high end doubles , and Shiloh may very well stock after casing. I would have said that warpage in casing is probably because I don't have all the sophistication of a professional case hardening/coloring enterprise but I get less warpage than the professional outfit I have had do work for me. What I have found is that case coloring almost always moves metal around to a lessor or sometime greater degree and to me it makes sense to fit the wood to the metal after it moves.

[mdeland]

I got to thinking that I should put in to perspective what I'm talking about when referring to case hardening/coloring metal warpage. For internal fitting were often talking in the ten thousands range where a part ,say breech block, was a snug slip fit previously will often bind after a casing job or a long tang may bend off or twist a thousands or two. When a tang has been closely fitted and often glass bedded at the base along it's length and cheeks which I often do to resist wood compression and oil saturation, that can make a real difference when you try to put the stock back together.
In the old days when factory rifle actions were routinely cased for strength of mild steel (color is actually a nice bi- product of case hardening) they were fitted before casing and re-fitted after casing which was called hard fitting . The soft fitting pre- case hardening was with files and after with stones and laps then they were stocked , barrel,sights and some furniture blued ,wood carved, checkered and wood finished.

[BFD]

I wonder how all of the high dollar English doubles are built? I wonder how the current Shiloh's are built? I wonder how most every custom rifle is built?

I hate to say it Mike but I think you are wrong on this one. Maybe your preference, but most everyone else would disagree.

Woody

I don't know a single gun maker or restocker that would agree with Mike. Not one. That's a fair number of people. I have always stocked first, cased second. Always.

[mdeland]

That doesn't surprise or deter me in the least , It's just my preference after doing a good deal of it both ways. It probably came about when I started to reinforce tangs at their bases and cheeks with glass bedding after getting the wood to contact at the surface as close as possible. Glass bedding will not tolerate any change in the shape of a tang mortise once it is molded to it on the length of the bottom edge, cheeks and rear of the tang. Once I get the tang spotted in then I go back and relieve the bottom corners of the mortise all the way around the tang and cheeks. I usually cut a cavity behind the tang end under neath about the size of a small hickory nut as and anchor and fill with glass bedding. It is invisible once the stock is on but stops any wood compression, tang end splits and seals off any oil migration into the wood from underneath. Probably over kill but it works especially well for wood subject to wet weather and swelling

[BFD]

That doesn't surprise or deter me in the least , It's just my preference after doing a good deal of it both ways. It probably came about when I started to reinforce tangs at their bases and cheeks with glass bedding after getting the wood to contact at the surface as close as possible. Glass bedding will not tolerate any change in the shape of a tang mortise once it is molded to it on the length of the bottom edge, cheeks and rear of the tang. Once I get the tang spotted in then I go back and relieve the bottom corners of the mortise all the way around the tang and cheeks. I usually cut a cavity behind the tang end under neath about the size of a small hickory nut as and anchor and fill with glass bedding. It is invisible once the stock is on but stops any wood compression, tang end splits and seals off any oil migration into the wood from underneath. Probably over kill but it works especially well for wood subject to wet weather and swelling

Mike you are welcome to do or think whatever you want. You can think the earth is flat, if you want.

People still epoxy bed cased actions and everything else. I do it myself. No one (other than you) will case color and action before stocking it. There is a reason for it.

[mdeland]

Well thanks for your permission Brent! I've been worried sick that you might not approve. Nah, the bible says the earth is round and that's always been good enough for me.