Soft lead versus hard lead

[mdeland]

I've lived around, hunted and observed quite a few in the almost 50 years of annual hunting trips here in AK and I still keep a weather eye out for them no matter where I am. They really will show up when and where least expected on you. I give blacks the same respect as Browns as they can kill you every bit as fast if they take a notion to!
I raised domestic hogs with my Dad in Michigan on our farm. Some of them would reach 3-400lbs and can be dangerous , our neighbor was killed by domestic hogs. They're smart and strong but they ain't even in the same universe of lethality with any species of bear for killing ability!

[BFD]

Some funny stuff here.

[DAVE ROELLE]

Having chased them with dogs, following on horseback, caught and tied them up alive (catch dog had control of the sharp end) hogs, even nasty old boars are easy enough to catch. Certainly the are powerful and tough but once you get them off their feet it's over for the hog.

I have never been threatened by hogs when hunting in Texas, they head the other way as fast as they can.

Bears are certainly another thing all together, typically bigger with teeth AND claws, even the biggest boar hog would be outclassed by a bear.

Still 500 grain soft lead slugs will work on either I believe

Dave

[bobw]

I haven't hunted hogs or bears with black powder cartridges but when I do and using my 45 2 7/8 I'll have complete confidence in 500 + grs of paper patched 1/ 60 alloy bullets ,they work on buffalo. I believe the rest of you could do worse than to follow Dave R's advice, he actually does it all the time. Bobw

[rdnck]

Until you have dealt with a really big wild boar hog, you don't understand. 60-1 is too soft for a big hog, let alone a really big one, believe me. When they reach an honest 400 pounds, things change in a big way. When I hunt hogs, or go into the woods where hogs are, I don't prepare for the average 100 to 175, maybe 200 pound hog. When you see one big enough to put a saddle on, you are dealing with an animal that can and will kill you, and 400 grains and/or 60-1 in the chamber is not where you want to be. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Had a friend come up to shoot a buffalo with his 45-90 with 50-1 cast PP bullets.


Short story, of 3 shots fired only one had pass through, in the bottom of the paunch, the other 2 one was under the hide the other lodged under the off side of shoulder. 2.5 hours later I killed it with a single shot out of my 45-110 business rifle, with a paper patched version of the government bullet, in 16-1. The outcome of that shot was a double lung hit and a busted rib on the very large trophy bull. He dropped dead in about 20 seconds.

I use hard lead, with buffalo you got to have pass through to depressurize the diaphragm, buffalo blood will clot faster than any other I have ever seen. That’s how they survive getting hooked buy another bull.

The autopsy showed that in the ranchers opinion the bull would of survived the 3 hits prior to my shot.

I will stick to hard lead, one the greatest bear hunters of Wyoming (grizzlies) used hard cast bullets.


Kenny Wasserburger
PS 4 dead buffalo with my business rifle, we have never recovered a single bullet, 4 dead in 6 shots, I would say that speaks for itself. 2 of the 4 killed with a single shot. The other two were shot a second time at the ranchers request.

[bruce m]

I cannot talk of shooting bison, but I have shot pigs with black powder, albeit muzzle loaders.
I was attacked by a pig hit on the fighting pad with a pure lead bullet, and was lucky a mate with a 30/06 was nearby.
the pure lead bullet had gone to the shape of a coin, failing to penetrate.
this was a one off, but not wanted ever again.
a 45/70 with smokeless and a 400 gn flat nose at 2000 fps required antimony in the alloy.
the bullets virtually would not expand, but proved deadly on pigs, probably in part due to calibre, and also nose shape.
at black powder velocities, I would experiment with 20:1 first, and suspect it would suffice.
on pigs expansion is good at these speeds, but enough penetration is necessary.
not all shots are side on, and raking shots have to penetrate further to do the job.
one thing about 45 cal is that if it does not expand it still makes a fair sized hole.
less expansion will benefit more from nose shape.
bruce.

[mdeland]

I've only killed one head of big game with a cast bullet so experience is practically nil but can testify that a flat point 250 grain Kieth bullet at 1200 fps made of water dropped wheel weights will go through, side to side, a 400 lbs. black bear like hot cheese, course it was close enough to singe his hair as he blew past! He just about got my hunting pard had the slug not cut his wiring through the spine and folded him up. Their speed is what is so impressive! They're in high gear (35 mph) in about three bounds!

[mdeland]

Hunting any kind of bear with a single shot is bad business regardless of the lead slug used and sooner or later it's going to get the hunter hurt if he keeps it up! Blacks are usually timid but don't ever bet your life on it as they regularly kill more people in AK than do Browns. I one time read an account of a guide who watched a medium size brown mix it up with a large Black bear. He said both were killed by the battle but the black finished off the brown which was a good bit larger before he wandered off a short ways and expired.
Most Brown encounters that get people hurt are by sows with cubs that will usually leave as soon as the threat abates which often means a person gets mauled.
A black that stalks means to eat you and their not shy about their intent. Two of the six I've killed were six footers and both were in the 400 lbs class or perhaps a bit more. A seven footer can go over 500 lbs and are found in S.E. AK on occasion if they have a good salmon diet. I saw a picture of one fat slob of a black that field dressed over 600 lbs. That's actually larger than the average inland Grizzly.

[DAVE ROELLE]

https://imgur.com/a/IXtGSCD

[DAVE ROELLE]

This is a small pig from 2 weeks ago

BBB was nice

[DAVE ROELLE]

https://imgur.com/a/lRL5cO2

[DAVE ROELLE]

This nasty old speckled boar hog was just under 200 pounds, about a month ago when we were scouting turkeys

Same roller and load

[Orville]

SHOT PLACEMENT!!!
It doesn’t matter as long as the bullet goes where it is aimed. The original big 50 473 gr pp bullet was 1-60. OP Hanna hunter in Wyoming in late 1800s used the 50 2 1/2 he wanted the softest lead he could find, he probably killed more game the all of us put together.

[Orville]

SHOT PLACEMENT!!!
It doesn’t matter as long as the bullet goes where it is aimed. The original big 50 473 gr pp bullet was 1-60. OP Hanna hunter in Wyoming in late 1800s used the 50 2 1/2 he wanted the softest lead he could find, he probably killed more game the all of us put together.