bruce m wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 4:12 pm
I cannot talk of shooting bison, but I have shot pigs with black powder, albeit muzzle loaders.
I was attacked by a pig hit on the fighting pad with a pure lead bullet, and was lucky a mate with a 30/06 was nearby.
the pure lead bullet had gone to the shape of a coin, failing to penetrate.
this was a one off, but not wanted ever again.
a 45/70 with smokeless and a 400 gn flat nose at 2000 fps required antimony in the alloy.
the bullets virtually would not expand, but proved deadly on pigs, probably in part due to calibre, and also nose shape.
at black powder velocities, I would experiment with 20:1 first, and suspect it would suffice.
on pigs expansion is good at these speeds, but enough penetration is necessary.
not all shots are side on, and raking shots have to penetrate further to do the job.
one thing about 45 cal is that if it does not expand it still makes a fair sized hole.
less expansion will benefit more from nose shape.
bruce.
G,day Bruce, What did you use on the Camels?
Keith
hi keith,
due to the expense , time commitment, etc, having a black powder rifle in the car for targets of opportunity is how I approach it.
not having mastered shooting dirty, it is a 1 shot affair.
camel hunting is a culling operation.
shoot as many as you can for the benefit of the landowner.
they tear down up to 5 km of fence at a time, and foul water points, as well as eating stock feed.
I am not too good at judging range in a hurry, so flatter than black powder trajectory is useful to shoot up to 300 yds in a sitting that could start at 100 yds, shooting and loading and shooting.
main gun for such activity is a m98 in 9.3x64 brenneke, using swift aframe bullets, and sometimes a win m70 7mm stw with barnes bullets.
neither of these guns can be guaranteed to go through both shoulders and exit on big camels, as with the 375 h&h.
a few shot with the 45/2.4 using 90 gns of swiss 1.5 and a 540 gn money bullet used 16:1.
I find it very hard to recover bullets from camels, as they are so heavy to roll over.
4 guys cannot even do it.
also the situation is that there is no time for really complex surgery, as you have to get along and look for more, or you might be right out in the desert and have to get out of there before dark.
interestingly I tried nosler partitions on camels and donkey in 9.3 cal only to be disappointed.
swift bullets changed that. their terminal performance is like cheese and chalk.
bruce.
Well ,I hope that none of the animals that I shot jump back up out of the freezer or the drain field because they weren't dead enough.I suspect that 200-400 lb hogs are tough as mentioned and I'm betting there are damn few of them per 100 hogs in any population. Bullets put where they are supposed to go all ways trump everything else. Bobw
They are all mammals. They are all built pretty much the same and they all die pretty much the same. I've taken them all apart and none of them had any titanium or Kevlar shielding either.
Any decent .45 bullet will kill them all dead as rocks. Soft or hard. The pistol boys do it all the time with much lighter bullets at about the same speeds.
That is all true about bullet placement and anatomy but I have to say having killed and seen killed both hogs and bears, the latter are harder to make die quickly. The black I referenced in the story took one behind the ear to make sure after the God shot through the spine folded and parallelized him.
A brown I witnessed my pardner shoot through both lungs with 180 grain Nosler on Kodiak took two hits about 2 inches apart and I guess around 30-40 seconds before finally expiring. I remember thinking I was glad we were not on the same hill top while it spun in circles biting at the wound and snapping off alders looking for what had hurt it. It swatted one alder bush ripping it out of the ground root wad and all sending it end over end through the air, which mightily impressed me at the time! The bear went down twice at each hit and was instantly back on it's feet with both lugs shot through.
The other brown ,again on Kodiak, only took one good lick from a 250 grain Speer out of a .35 Whelen to kill. It did live long enough to dive into the alders in a get away attempt. On that deal I had to circle and come into the alder patch from the top of a rise so I could better see down into them. Not being a particularly brave person ,that deal puckered me right up and I was all to glad when my hunting pard, who followed up his shot, yelled out the bear was down. Twice now my pardners have taken the brown bears on Kodiak while I got to watch. Actually the second was supposed to have been mine but my pardner got greedy and ignored our prearranged agreement of who was to support and who was to shoot.
Just as well I guess as my little place has no where large enough to hang a Brown bear rug any way. I gave away all but my last black bear hides to friends who wanted them. I do like to keep the teeth and sinew to make things out of though. Kept the skull on the last one and should mount it out in the shop.
I have hunted wild hogs, have them on my place and just watched a herd of 16 a few minutes ago.
The 400 and 500 pounders are rare in Oklahoma, but damn scary.
I have shot through the so called "shield" with a 55 pound longbow. Complete penetration at 15 yards...seconds later the old boy expired where he stood.
A few months ago my 11 year old Grand Monkey and I stalked a herd and I lined up two with a single shot shotgun and 000 buck.
One expired instantly and the herd was all around us within feet. The big Boar was NOT afraid and I'm glad he decided not to bite my grandson.
We have bear and mountain lions in Oklahoma but they are apparently not making an impact on the pig population.
In SE Oklahoma a lot of hunters shoot wild hogs and leave them lay. The bears obviously eat the carcass and one theory I've heard is that the bear Population here is growing due to that practice of providing a BIG easy meal.
I suspect a big, lead slug well placed at 75 yards will anchor any hog.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
We used to butcher 3 200-250 pigs a year and make smoked cooked sausage and other cuts. i used a .22 pistol and make a brain shot. Mostly they drop right down but I have seen them shake their head and look at me like do that again. I don't think I would want one of my young once close to a big or even a 200 pounder making a bad hit on one.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
We would find dead calves and throw them into the hog pen. That convinced me I NEVER wanted to fall down in amongst the hogs.
I have been bit by dogs, hogs a coyote and several asshats....a bite always HURTS and an asshat bite seems to always want to get infected.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
Great stuff guys. I wish you would expand on these stories and place them in the hunting thread. I love reading about bear hunts and hog hunts and whatever with a Sharps! Wonderful!!
Great stuff guys. I wish you would expand on these stories and place them in the hunting thread. I love reading about bear hunts and hog hunts and whatever with a Sharps! Wonderful!!