And I diverge .............

Talk with other Shiloh Sharps shooters.

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mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

I can't seem to stooooooooooooooop! :lol: I'm going with the basic shape of bow the Comacbe used but with two alterations. Lamiations of Hickory and Ipe and I'm making it more narrow as I prefer a more center shot design which will be thicker and not as wide. Trying for 45-50 lbs and 40-42 inches long. Probably will also put a bit of Pyramid taper in as this makes then quicker.
This one will bend through the handle and be wrapped with either decoy cord or leather.
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mdeland
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Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

Got a nice surprise in the mail yesterday. A cured Ole Sage Orange bow stave. The grain allowed enough length to get two 50 inch short bow staves before it dipped to deep to be usable for a longer one.
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mdeland
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Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

I think it a very nice stave as it is quite straight grained and has very few pin knots to work around. Should be quite friendly to growth ring chasing. We'll see!
Kurt
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Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by Kurt »

That is a good straight tight grain. Now orient it and start pulling that draw knife. :) I would make a steam box and put a little recurve in it if the grain runs true all the way.
It's not hard to make a jig with dowels stuck in a 2x10. The Ash trees that died a few years ago are drying good and when I get some time and ambition I will split a couple logs with 10# mall and wedges to see how the grain runs.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

Well I went over and picked up a Bear Montana long bow today that Cabella's had for a good price. Never owned a commercial long bow and wanted a good professional grade glass powered bow to test against the ones I make . They let me shoot it a few times on their range and boy is it nice.
It is 50 lbs draw, center shot and 66 inches tip to tip, 64 nock to nock.
Smooth, quiet and quick. It has deflex - reflex limb profile and narrow, low mass tips which give it better cast (arrow speed). I think I'm gonna like her!
Glen Ring
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Re: And I diverge .............

Post by Glen Ring »

I have made a few bows using a z splice when I could only find two good three foot pieces of Osage. I used epoxy...never getting the formula right for mixing resorcinol . I put a little reflex into the bow like that and after the splice dried for a few days I drilled through and put a wood dowel and glue to make sure the handle was good. I am curious about the hickory backing on the ipe and what formula you used ipe % hickory thickness. Sinew is messy using good , dehydrated hide glue...but after a couple of weeks it will pull the bow into more reflex. When the sinew dries, you'll probably need to fine tune the tiller again. I used a tillering stick and the old trick of looking at the bow in the mirror to make sure I'm not making a propeller. I have made a few propeller bows..and they shot well. making sinew backed bows will definitely turn an iffy piece into a good bow...but the cracking sound of the sinew will make your heart jump when tillering. Good, thein raw hide does a good job also. When the tips were done, usually bone or horn, I'd cover all that with matching snake skins, or if i was lucky, one snake skin. My best snakeskin backing was always with titebond glue..and a thin coating at that. Raw snake skins need a couple of weeks to dry and make sure to spend some time on it massaging out the air bubbles. me and a bud made and gave away MANY bows....and then we moved on to blow guns , non returning hunting boomerangs, and atlatls. As you know...the all natural bow string is a very challenging task to make one last.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

Building another Hickory bow. I'm trying a copy of Issi's style bow using the basic Pyramid design I like so well but with stiff five inched (narrow 3/8's in wide) tips. This one will be about 60 inches nock to nock and will bend through the handle. I'm using very light tip over lays of moose antler and will deepen the handle thickness with .250 raw hide.
I'm trying to decide on an arrow rest or to shoot off my hand. I also think I will stain this bow before putting on the final finish after tillering.
I've read in the bowyer bible that the stiff tips give you more cast speed so will be testing this out. This is bow # five so each one is a new learning experience.
Like you guys I've given away three of them to my grand kids which came by for shop class last week and all we did was shoot bow and arrows across the shop. Didn't get much class done on that day but had a ball with the kid slinging arrows into a capture target.
I still haven't figured out how to use that Osage stave I have as the grain run dives clear to the opposite side about a third way down stave.
mdeland
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Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

I've been going to heat treat this new bow of Hickory and pyramid design with a few Ishi mods and haven't been quite sure how to approach it. I discovered and then ordered a two set DVD of instructions on fire hardening instead of the normal heat gun application of belly tempering.
If this is actually true it well revolutionize what we (white wood) bow makers have in our tool box to make them equal to and even surpass what can be made from Old Sage (Bowdark) or Yew wood bows.
The man claims he can make a hickory flat bow , heat treat it and surpass the cast from an equivalent Bodark bow , spotting the Bodark bow five more lbs of draw weight. He then goes on to prove it over a chronograph with the same arrow.
He fire hardens both the belly and back over a charcoal fire for a couple of hours not just the belly skin as with a heat gun. He says it also makes them far more impervious to water absorption which is what he really likes about the process. He demonstrates cutting down a Hickory sapling , stripping the bark and roughing out the bow shape, drying it to 10 percent under a tarp and charcoal heat source for two days.
After two days from it growing in the ground, drying it out, he finish shapes it and fire hardens and tillers it. He is shooting it at the end of three days and is getting a cast (arrow speed) in the high 160's-low 170's with a 10 grain per pound arrow and no set. I am impressed to say the least.
I'm going to give her a try on this new bow.
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alfajim
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Re: And I diverge .............

Post by alfajim »

Have any of you bow makers tried to duplicate the yew wood long bow used in the days of Knights of old or is yew wood still no longer available?

Jim O
Kurt
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Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by Kurt »

Jim,

I would think so. Isn't yew wood the outer layer of the sap ring of a hard wood tree?
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
Glen Ring
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:45 pm

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by Glen Ring »

Kurt
Yew wood is yew. Some folks like to leave a layer of sap wood on the outside. I never liked that. Some folks leave some sap wood on locust also, but I never liked that either.

Jim
I have made long bows of that design out of red cedar, yew, and Osage orange. The Osage had the best cast.

I prefer the design of the American Flat bow . 66 inches long, around 2 inches wide above the grip tapering to 1/2 knocks. A VERY durable design that has survived for eons when folks needed to kill to eat.

DO NOT TAKE UP WOOD BOW MAKING!! You'll find yourself spending hours in the woods looking for the right tree to liberate a stave. Then it's MONTHS of whittling on several staves that are all unique. Then you'll find yourself knapping flint, making strings, and NAMING each bow you finish ...I have never used drugs, but bow making is VERY addictive.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
mdeland
Posts: 11708
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

True story Glen about the lure of bow making! What do you think of the fire hardening thing I posted? The guy (I forget his name) says that he did not invent the idea but got it from reading the history of Eastern American Indian cultures who fire hardened their bows. With this process one can have a very good bow in less than a week from harvest with no wood checking and almost impervious to moisture gain.
Makes sense that when your bow is the means to eat and defend yourself it needs to be able to be made quickly.
mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

I received that DVD about fire hardening a bow. Basically they cook the belly of the bow attached to a form over a charcoal pit to more thoroughly infuse wood cell hardening to half the thickness of the limb. It makes white bow wood that has good tension qualities also have good compression along with making them super moisture resistant and very stable. They are supposed to be lighter and have more efficiency than does Yew or Bodark after this treatment. The DVD is necessary for the particulars of how to accomplish this without damaging the wood but it sure looks like a great ancient technology rediscovered in Bowery. I'm anxious to give it a go soon as the snow leaves.
Man, is this winter ever going to leave the North ? It was 11 degree F this morning with a real knifing north wind!
mdeland
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm

Re: And I diverge .............

Post by mdeland »

Well here is my first attempt at a crooked stave Bodark "character" wood bow. I'm profiling this one in the American flat bow shape instead of my usual Pyramid style. I think because it is only going to be about 60 inches long when complete I will make it bend through the handle for better limb efficiency.
I chased the growth ring the best I could so we will see when I draw it if I got it right or not.
I may have to do a bit of heat bending to get out some of the kinks and put some reflex (bend toward target) to straighten it out of "set" .
The upper limb curves right for a natural center shot profile so I plan on leaving most of that in if possible. Here is the rough out.
One shot each of the back, belly and side profile if the puter will cooperate.
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Glen Ring
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Re: And I diverge .............

Post by Glen Ring »

Me and a bud had a contest to see who could make the ugliest, crooked bow. he won! They will still shoot well..even if they look like an airplane propeller.

It will still provably make meat for you. I have made MANY bows...but never a horn bow. I have seen a bow made from gems buck horns...but it pulled around 100 pounds.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
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