50-70 question

[mdeland]

Was the 50-70 always a self primed case cartridge or did it have a copper/brass case percussion parent?

[Longknife76]

The 50/70 cartridge is what got me hooked into this BPCR game in about 1991! I got on a Remington RB New York State rifle, got it cheap, it was a "trade" for some auto repairs, never did I imagine that it would end up costing me so much!!!! Any way as I under stand it the first military cartridge guns were in .58 cal , having been m-loading muskets converted to trapdoors shooting a 58 cal rimfire cartridge, these were done in 1865 . There were about 5,000 modified this way. This is now known as the "First Allen conversion" . In 1866 Allen modified his trapdoor to accept 50-70 centerfire rounds and lined the 58 caliber barrels to .50 cal. There were about 25,000 done this way and this is called the "Second Allen conversion... Any way , that how I read it!,,,Ed

https://www.nps.gov/spar/learn/historyc ... loader.htm

[mdeland]

I was thinking of the brass cases with a hole centered in the head meant to be percussion cap or primer tape fired. I think this method would have predated rimfire cases but not entirely sure about that.

[Yellowhouse]

I think you are referring to the inside primed Benet type. http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.c ... em_042.htm

There were lots more types of ignition back when.

[Yellowhouse]

I think you are referring to the inside primed Benet type. http://www.mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.c ... em_042.htm

[mdeland]

The one I'm thinking of had a very tiny flash hole right in the center of the head where a primer pocket would usually be. It could have been a proprietary case perhaps a Maynard or something like that? I've seen one some where but don't remember if it was in 50-70. My Friend Leo Reminger ( a Maynard collector) would know I bet if a 50-70 was ever in that configuration, I'll give him a jingle.

[George Babits]

That certainly sounds like a Maynard case. The Civil War Maynard carbine used a case like that, but it is shorter than the 50-70 and holds about 45 grains of powder with some compression. There were other "outside primed" cartridges as well. but they were quite differently than modern cartridges. The Smith and Burnside cartridges come to mind. The Maynard carbine case is 1.2 inches long; the 50-70 case is 1.75 inches long. Maynard also had a larger .56 caliber shot shell that was outside primed. The early 50-70 rounds used the Benet (sp?) priming where the primer is inside the case and you see no primer on the base of the case. That was soon changed to the Boxer or Berdan primers we know today.

As an aside, the Maynard carbine is a simple lever operated break open action. Rifles of that design, using special Maynard centerfire cartridges with a very thick and wide rim. Later, Maynard cartridges became more like the standard rimmed cartridges. Maynard rifles were popular among target shooters. Barrels were easily interchanged and quite a few rifles were ordered with 2 or 3 barrels in a set. Brass for the original carbines is available and they are a lot of fun to shoot.

George
Salmon, Idaho