Bullets keyholed

[paulk]

Sighting in my Shiloh #1 Sporter in 45-70 I had 4 bullets keyhole at 400 yds.
I was sighting in alone on a 4'x3' white paper with a black 12" shoot-n-see target pasted in the middle. Sight was set 12 minutes up from 300 yard setting as starting point.
The ground was damp and I couldn't see where any rounds impacted. Some rounds randomly hit backer paper and 4 keyholed. Don't know if they ricocheted or not.
My load is 70 gr 1 1/2 F olde eynsforde, compressed, a .060 wad, and a 500 gr. Saeco 881 bullet sized to .460, and large magnum rifle primers.
All my bullets are weighed after casting so in each box there is 7/10 gr difference max.
I've used this load for quite awhile in my Shiloh and my Trapdoor and have never seen this before.
Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.
Sighting in at 100, 200 and 300 yds there were no issues at all. Got on target fairly quickly and wrote down sight settings.

[art ruggiero]

you are probably bouncing the bullet off the ground come up 5 or 6 min art

[Coltsmoke]

Use a piece of cardboard instead of paper.

[Lumpy Grits]

What's the alloy mix
Gary

[paulk]

My alloy is 20-1.
I buy it already made.

[rdnck]

Paul--Do this: Go to a ,030 wad, size the bullets to .458, and use some CCI BR2 primers. It will make a difference. Shoot straight, rdnck.

[paulk]

I'll give that a go!

[paulk]

Thanks everyone, I'll try all these suggestions.

[bruce m]

depending on your sight radius, 15 to 16 moa might be a better comeup for 300 to 400.
12 to 16 moa is 4 moa = 16" at 400.
from the centre of your piece of paper to the bottom is 24" = 6 moa
art's suggestion is the simplest thing to try.
this combined with the fact the bullet shoots ok in previous guns suggest riquochet.
I have seen similar on fullbore ranges where guys forgot to wind up their sights with some bullet holes round, and some fully side on, and anything in between, but always devoid of accuracy.
as far as sizing the bullets, if they will slide into a fired case this is optimum size for best accuracy.
this of course will depend on chamber dimensions and case neck thickness.
primers might make a small difference to group size, but are highly unlikely to go from 1 moa to keyholing.
same with wad type or thickness.
I do remember Krieger accidentally let out a slow twist 6mm barrel marked as 1 in 8", but this sort of thing is very rare and unlikely.
bruce.

[hepburnman]

Could be bullet slump with 70 gr of powder. Go to 16/1 alloy. I mixed some 24/1 alloy bullets in with my 16/1 bullets and had some hit the dirt before the rams this weekend. I was supposed to shoot the 24/1 at the Pigs.

[mdeland]

I'd be surprised if they're hitting the ground first that four would hit the target backer. I'd check the bore and crown for any damage. You didn't by chance shoot out a stuck slug and ring the barrel did you as that can make bullets key hole.

[kenny sd]

old trick now part of my loading chores.

use the card wad over the powder, then TWO newspaper wads over that, then the bullet....they prevent the wad from sticking to the bullet down range, and YES it will stick and this does work. flyers go away ....

I've found that a liberal PAPER WORKS BEST, SPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF Nancy under the bullet . BUT just me.......Ken

but don't use a picture of old Joe..... I've found the bullet just Wobbles, and Turns, and can't keep it's course.....HA

[charlie young]

We were discussing different load variations and styles last weekend at a match. The conclusion was there is nothing set in stone as far as what makes an accurate load. I'm not going to go into specifics as to what I think works and does work in my loading, but I am curious as to what is considered a "flier". My thing is shooting 500 yds. and beyond. 2 of my targets at home are at 900 yds. So that being said, what should a person expect to happen with a flier. Do you miss the target by a few inches, a few feet, or are we talking maybe in yards. To me a flier is like when you have a broken firing pin and you basically have no idea which direction it may go. So how do you know you have a flier because of a stuck on wad or did something else happen.

[Kurt]

Charlie what I call a flier is a round completely missing the target frame by a large margin when they were going into the black and knowing the break was good and not a missed wind call doing it.
When one goes from a 10 to a 7 I call that fat fingering or anticipating recoil pushing the shoulder at the time setting off the round.
A lot of shooters won't admit doing that, but it shows when the hammer is at 1/2 cock and they hear that click and see the muzzle jump

[mdeland]

Better know as "FLINCH" ! But flinching doesn't cause Key holes.