The Mile a Ballistics experiment.

[desert deuce]

KW wrote: Considering the fact that I have hit it 8/10 at one mile would suggest I have a pretty clear head when I am shooting.

I think more like Kenny has been on and continues on a journey. He took an idea, a rifle and dogged persistence in developing a load for a specific application using that rifle and so far is 8/10. No doubt in my mind that in his mind that was the next mile stone in his quest for 10/10. Clear thinking may help but persistence pays off.

[GrumpyBear]

KW wrote: Considering the fact that I have hit it 8/10 at one mile would suggest I have a pretty clear head when I am shooting.

I think more like Kenny has been on and continues on a journey. He took an idea, a rifle and dogged persistence in developing a load for a specific application using that rifle and so far is 8/10. No doubt in my mind that in his mind that was the next mile stone in his quest for 10/10. Clear thinking may help but persistence pays off.

Well stated D.D.

[bruce m]

the difference in sight settings between greasers and pp bullets is interesting.
a difference in muzzle velocity between 1300 and 1400 fps cannot account for this., leaving only b.c. as the reason.
in reality you can always wind up the sight to cater for the difference, but this is not really the issue.
such a difference in drop is suggestive of reduced wind deflection, a very handy thing to have at any range.
bad vert is also a killer at any range, in any discipline.
there is nothing you can do about it, as opposed to learning to read the wind.
kenny's vert is very good, and i wonder if many of the modern ultra long range guys using 338 lapuas etc can do any better.
one place where b.c. can cause vert is when it varies.
this happens when insufficient stability allows a little nutation/precession wobble somewhere midrange.
that bullet will suddenly have more drag temporarily, and shoot low.
i have had this when experimenting with bullet length for twist, slowly shortening the bullet until it went away.
if there is one thing i would love to see in the wasserburger mile is the 2 7/8" case filled with powder behind a properly tuned breech seated pp bullet.
bullets loaded like that in my 45/2.4 shoot scary accurate with 100 gns powder.
unfortunately i have no opportunity to shoot at 1 mile to test.
these competitions really are excellent vehicles to gain knowledge.
bruce.

[mdeland]

Is anyone shooting a mile using the mini groove bullets and seeing how they fair against PP bullets at extreme range ?

[alfajim]

This I believe will be our 5th Mile match.

A few folks need to brush up on their reading comprehension skills. I never said anywhere that the 45-70 can’t reach a mile. What is said, is simple, they haven’t had any success in placing. It is interesting to read the nay sayers, none of you have ever shot a mile Target. I do believe Kenny Heir has the ND mile target record with 4 hits? If I am mistaken Dan Cash or Kenny can clear that up. Btw Kenny did that with a 45-110 PP I believe.


Bill and Kurt, you both know BobW rather well, I suggest that you both talk to him about the difficulties in hitting a Mile target accurately. I believe he can give you some insights as to the unique issues of hitting a mile target accurately and especially repeatably.

As for the sandy hook tests, I am well aware of them. However the rifle tested that worked the best was a special sharpshooter model of trapdoor, you boys need to reread it, carefully. It was a 45-90.
The 45-70 was chosen as a compromise. It also was a six groove barrel with a 1-18 twist with a globe front sight and a tang rear. One of the trapdoor guys has a real one!

We have collected a lot of data, theses years since putting up the Mile target in 2007, I just distilled it down in a few sentences, obviously it’s upset a few of you fuckers that can’t wrap your heads around that. Somehow you think I am mistaken.

Edwin Perry wrote an exceptional book in 1879, several of you profess to have read it . You need to either reread it or get a copy. Perry stresses the importance of a load holding vertical at 1000 yards. I would also suggest you read the match results in that book. None of the old dead guys used a 45-70 in that match, none of them used a grease Groove bullet.

That last time the vaunted Wimbledon Cup was won, with a BPCR was in 1903 at Sea Grit NJ. The Gentlemen was William DeV Fouke. Using a Sharps Borchart, with a 105 gr charge of powder and. 550 gr paper patch bullet. Oh btw he was wiping with a Fisher Brush, and drying the barrel between Shots. Townsend Whelen wrote about this several times.

For those that have never been to a mile match....and ours was the first, btw. Opining your opinion that the 45-70/is up to scoring well or wining, are just spouting Gas Until you actually try it.


Now for some actual evidence, here are several pictures

Top picture is of recovered bullets from one mile, from top down are my PP loads after they have hit the outer which is of tank steel quite a bit softer than the AR 500 bullseye. The middle bullet of the group is one of Randy Clearcrick Shooter. A load that he dropped 5 grs of powder to lessen the felt recoil of that 50-90 of his. It was an experiment that didn’t fare to well.. notice the steep angle of the bullet coming into the steel it clipped a grader cutting edge laying in front of the target.

Those below it 5th down is a recovered one of mine that was short and skidded on the hard dirt cutting a furrow in the ground. Next two are my monogroove bullet that Tony Nielsen and I came up with for a 18-1 twist Barrel. It shoots well at 525 grs.

The next two pictures are quite telling, notice the impact angle of these two different bullets, it is considerably flatter than the 50 bullet. Now the 50 load with 5 grs more of powder is closer to pictures of mine but not quite.