BPCR Attendance Decline.....

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mdeland
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by mdeland »

I've noticed our clang and bang matches here in AK have not only remained active but have grown as we have gone along. One of the main attractions is getting folks to bring their old safe queens that get little use. It is not uncommon now to see 2-3 different rifles shooting cast bullets for one match.
I have taken a hit in the scores since using multiple rifles and calibers in the same match but have so much fun shooting the guns that don't get used much.
One of my friends used his .58 musket for one relay and did well. :lol: Another fellow shooter uses a pistol for 50 yard chickens and occasionally wins the whole shebang.
We mix up BPCR with smokeless, all that is required is lead bullets.
mdeland
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by mdeland »

These matches really are about shooting fun and using what you have as long as lead bullets are used. It draws from muzzle loaders, hunters, practical pistol folks, bullseye fans, F-Class and cowboy shooters, plus it's year around now not just the warm months.
mdeland
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by mdeland »

In looking back over my 20-25 years of competitive shooting it seems to me that venues with at least one relay of off hand shooting seem to have a real consistent draw to them. I tire quickly of prone or bench matches and is the main reason I always preferred position venues. I feel they are not only more interesting but produce a better well rounded riflemen.
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desert deuce
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by desert deuce »

Suspect the real problem is people on this forum that should show up and shoot, don't.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
SSShooter
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by SSShooter »

Wonder if adding lead-bullet military rifles would not be a plus to our numbers? Might be of interest to M1, M1A, 1903, Mauser, etc., shooters. Establish a 'modern military' class. Same rules (single round loading, period sniper scope size, etc.) The more the merrier as far as I'm concerning. Both BPCR & BPTR. Couple of times we've let the high-power guys shoot with us when they showed up not having looked at the range schedule to see there is a match. Just put them at the end of the line and follow our range commands. No problem and everyone happy.
Glenn
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

Zack,

You hit the nail square on the head. Many that don’t attend post in here a lot.

We all have helped a bunch of folks get started. Mentoring, teaching positions, loading, casting bullets Even teaching wind reading and spotting.

Very few have the self discipline to learn to load black powder correctly, some rely on faux semi smokeless, some will not and never have cast a single bullet due to the Too much work. Multiple times I have helped people, get a leg up in this sport, a very rare few ever proceed beyond that, they lack the dedication and motivation. One individual asked over a dozen questions of me via text just a few weeks ago, many are simply repeated ones from the past 4-5 years, the same individual that has never attended or let’s say competed in a single match. When I come across as harsh on this forum with said individual, it is due to the fact, I am tired of wasting my time with said individual. People that get upset with my treatment of that person haven’t a damn clue of my past history with this person.

I am also on a very limited income since my accident, yet in a 300 mile range of Gillette I have Big Whiskey, which always has a waiting list to attend. Carpenter and Cheyenne to the south, thanks to the efforts of the Smiths and Dick H. It’s a mater of which or how many matches I can attend, not of a lack of them. Further south roughly 408 miles is Byers Colorado Rifle Club which hosts the BPTRA Nationals by Robert G. All these major match’s had or have a waiting list. It’s the folks that host these matches that’s the draw period.

If one thinks this sport is expensive, you need a fucking reality check folks. Rifle games that draw huge attendance numbers require a rifle of 2000 or more that is put into a chassis that’s another 1500 or more, that’s the bare minimum of 3500. Then an American Optic or a Nightforce scope of 4000 to 5000 or more, this game a low end entry rifle is $10,000 coupled with the fact you will replace 3-5 barrels in a single season at 800 to 1000 a pop. Wake up guys geez. :roll:

The kicker.....is these all use store bought ammunition, or smokeless powder reloading bought bullets match prepared brass. It’s easy to replicate to ammo. No long hours slaving over a 800’ casting pot making bullets.

Steve Garbe once shared a story about Lones Wigger and George and David Tub checking out a BPCR match. Everyone was worried that these guys would get into BPCR and dominate the sport. After checking into the game, they all emphatically claimed they would never try it as it was way to much work. And don’t worry about them. Cody Smith and I discussed this just last night at my camper table.

I still correspond with David Tubb, as I used to shoot Highpower many years ago. I also have a long time Friendship with Nancy Thompkins, that I renewed at one of Steve Rhoades steak cookouts after the America’s Cup Match. I enjoyed the game but it lacked something for me, that I found in Bpcr and BPTR.

In 2019 Jimbo and I took Lucinda to a benchrest match in Phoenix AZ, where I introduced her to someone I have known since the age of 18, a gentleman as gracious as he can be, and a giant in the benchrest game. Mr Walt Berger. He admonished Lucinda that he had tried for 40 years to get Kenny to quit laying in the dirt and to take up benchrest. :lol: why I never did was it didn’t appeal to me. I fully understand the complexities of that game, and the effort required to excel at it, it just isn’t my cup of tea.

Come to Wyoming or Montana or Colorado, there is no lack of matches to attend, be prepared to get in a early entry or be prepared to be on a waiting list. :lol:


The Lunger KW
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
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Lumpy Grits
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by Lumpy Grits »

SSShooter wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:01 am Wonder if adding lead-bullet military rifles would not be a plus to our numbers? Might be of interest to M1, M1A, 1903, Mauser, etc., shooters. Establish a 'modern military' class. Same rules (single round loading, period sniper scope size, etc.) The more the merrier as far as I'm concerning. Both BPCR & BPTR. Couple of times we've let the high-power guys shoot with us when they showed up not having looked at the range schedule to see there is a match. Just put them at the end of the line and follow our range commands. No problem and everyone happy.
You really don't want lead bullets, even with gas checks, in a 'gas' piston operated gun.
Gary
"Hav'n you along, is like loose'n two good men"
DeadEye
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by DeadEye »

Where is Steve Rhoades when you need him? Rest in Peace my friend. For many years on the third weekend in November about 72 shooters would congregate for one of the best Silhouette matches there WAS. FYI Glenn your idea is nothing new, Steve was doing that for several years before he passed. If I remember correctly it attracted about a dozen shooters but did not add that many to the overall since some would just choose to shoot that instead of BPCR. It was called Military Sniper Class and included anything up to the Korean war, again if memory serves.

Steve passed and another man (I checked but his web site is down, no slight intended) stepped up for two or three years. When he stopped it was gone. So somewhere out there on the third weekend in November there will be 72 guys wishing they had a match to go to. Mike, Jim, Butch, Craig, Jeanne have all stepped away from the chore. I think the lesson is that without them we have nothing. Be kind to your match directors. Thank you folks.

Paul
"My heroes have always been cowboys and they still are it seems."
mdeland
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by mdeland »

I have to agree about who the match director is, is a major factor in how well folks attend.
As far as teaching someone how to duplex, load straight BP, wipe, cast BP etc, I don't ever consider that a waist of time wither or not they ever come to my match. Some folks just like to learn things they may not ever use but the knowledge is spread none the less and usually shared with others who may be interested in putting it to use.
BPCR has always been a fringe sport in modern times just as muzzle loading is hence more work is required to keep it viable. The trick I think is to except this and deal with it the best we can by appealing to what shooters find attractive.
The point , it seems to me is, to have fun and keep shooting which may come to screeching halt if Biden gets in and tips the supreme court 5-4 activist judge. If that happens we will all be transitioning to archery boys!
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desert deuce
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by desert deuce »

The Arizona Western International Shoot in March invites and encourages the participation of both muzzle loaders and vintage sniper competitors. I think this year either two or three competitors competed and completed the courses of fire for vintage sniper category.

I spotted for Bob Englebach who had sold his muzzle loader and left his BPCR Rifle at home and tried his hand at vintage sniper. I have been shooting with Bob in BPCR Target for many years. I think next time I see Bob he will have his old reliable BPCR rifle in tow.

As far as distance goes, there were competitors from Alaska, Indiana, Virginia and other Eastern States as well as Great Britain, Netherlands and New Zealand, so the too far to travel and cost is a non starter. You get what you pay for.

There is no bigger or better black powder target rifle match anywhere than March in Phoenix. What is wrong with going bigger and better anyway? Could it be that the distance from the keyboard to the range is just too far?
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Glen Ring
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by Glen Ring »

I agree Paul...take care of the match directors and the clubs that have ranges.
We recruit shooters of all kinds and meet all kinds of folks with different income levels at matches and watching matches.
A good 870 can compete at a trap match along side fancy trap guns costing several thousand dollars.
A Ruger predator rifle with a decent scope can compete at a High power silhouette match.
A Ruger American Rimfire rifle can compete in a smallbore silhouette match .

Almost all of the shooting sports have seen a decline in numbers EXCEPT sports like the rimfire action sports.
Precision rimfire is really hot right now. We are even going to try it next month at our range.
Rimfire steel challenge has good numbers.

Make the match fun and shooters will come back. Make it into something that requires grinding away at it for hours and hours and a lot of folks will not come back.
In Oklahoma we make matches fun. Heck...we even draw large crowds from folks that have traveled thousands of miles to compete in the world championship Cow chip throwing contest!
Make it fun...folks will come.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
charlie young
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by charlie young »

We just finished what I call Shooters Christmas. Started in Forsyth at the Coker Memorial, next weekend was Medicine Rock, and finally the Big Hill north of Baker, Mt. Average number of shooters for the BPCR rifles on each of the Sunday's was right at 50 shooters. .22 matches, revolver matches, and lever guns, Friday and Saturdays. Not everyone's cup of tea, but no lack of participation. Shooters from Wisconsin to California and Washington and everything in between. Ages from 12 to 80+. Course if you don't want to get your ass kicked by a woman you best stay home. No we don't get all the fancy national attention. But we do enjoy ourselves. One fellow and his wife drove from Missouri just to go to his first "Gong" match. I noticed that there were 40 some replies to this thread, I'm curious as to how many of the posters have their own kids/grandkids involved. My guess is not very many.
Glen Ring
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by Glen Ring »

Outstanding.
There are those that talk, and those that act. Make a choice.
DeadEye
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by DeadEye »

Charlie, you know well there would have been two more if the Border was open. First one in ten years we've missed. Which one of the girls had the pleasure this time?

Paul
"My heroes have always been cowboys and they still are it seems."
charlie young
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Re: BPCR Attendance Decline.....

Post by charlie young »

Paul, looking forward to next year when you folks can again make it across. Mark M. sister Penny is just kickin' butt. I didn't stay for awards on Sunday as I had a camper with no tail lights and cows to check so I left as soon as I got done shooting, so I don't have scores for Sunday yet. There is a young lady, I think she is 12 that is just unreal at what she can do. Won't mention names because of her age. I have work to do on my new Highwall, evidently we don't agree on things. Did fairly well at the Coker Memorial, but that old Shiloh I used there seems to look for targets.

Charlie
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