Spin drift question

[XTR]

Note the angle on the long range sights on an 03 Springfield. It’s been done that way before.

[desert deuce]

And Professor Molds from OZ Down Under wrote:

and there was i thinking you were the master of the windage foresight all this time.
bruce.

Stated more accurately, an advocate for the windage foresight for both mid and long range Black Powder Target Rifle Competition.

My suspicion is that one's philosophy concerning this sport is just as important if not more so than Barometric Pressure or Coriolis Effect etc..

Harry Pope, "just don't fire any bad shots." Stellar advice when on the mat, on the clock, peering through the sights at the far distant target.

Dave Mauer, "if you want to shoot good scores you have to shoot good bullets." An idea with obvious merit.

Eron Ahmer, " don't worry if the bullet is slightly out of round, the barrel will make it round before it clears the muzzle." Works for Eron.

Frank Monikowski, (paraphrased) " what you know about your rifle and load, and what the mirage and wind say you should do, is often corrected by the target advising you of what you should have done."

Zack Taylor, " Yes, even if you adhered to all doctrine and theory regarding the proper adjustment of your sights you can still miss the target. The goal then should be to make the correct adjustment and only the target can advise you on that subject."

In the final analysis, philosophy is important. It dovetails with the mental aspect, but who here or in far off lands wants to go there?

[bruce m]

well zack,
whether you are and advocate or a practitioner of the windage foresight, in my opinion you always will be a master.
this is because you walk the walk more than talk the talk.
and as you say you have a good mindset re both the performance of shooting as well as preparation for same.
of course if you can't deliver the goods, no ammount of all sorts of things is going to do it for you.
and i note your continuing promotion of the sport.
of your quotes i would comment on 2.
erons statement re out of round bullets might be correct, but if an out of round bullet is made round in such a way that its centre of mass is not on the axis, he is making it harder for himself as the bullet will have reduced stability and hence vert or worse.
what frank says might describe the real world, but should not be aspired to.
we should all look for the first sighter to be an x.
and if we miss we should endeavour to establish why in order to improve.
chasing shots is a guide only as to what the condition is really telling you.
relying on chasing is putting you behind the condition and will lead to medioctrity.
bruce.

[desert deuce]

Mmmm.....Bruce, I am going to introduce a concept here that is called "cobwebs of the mind".

Visualize a very astute and attractive lady receiving visitors in her home after spending two days cleaning her sitting room in preparation for their visit.

As her guests have settled comfortably on the sofa's and added a few cubes of sugar to their steaming tea the lady of the house happens to look up in the far corner of the room at the junction of the ceiling and there clearly dangling for all to see is a very large spiders web or cob web.

The sight so startles and distracts the woman that she becomes uncomfortable to the extent that she has a terrible time at the tea and is much less the hostess that she is capable of being mostly out of trepidation that the ladies have seen the cob web, which they have not, and think she is a slovenly house keeper.

I think the point Eron was making was by the time the shooter is on the mat, sighted in on the target it is imprudent to allow something like the possibility of an out of round projectile interfere with sight alignment, breathing and trigger control. In other words the corollary of the cob web in the illustration above applied to the philosophy and mental preparation for shooting well at long range.

[bruce m]

but zack,
the time to worry about out of round bullets is long before the match (or tea party).
all that sort of stuff should be well nailed down.
then when you get there, you KNOW all the loose ends are tied down.
you have to play the cards you dealt yourself, so deal youself the best hand you can.
bruce.

[Distant Thunder]

When I look back at the past 16 or so years since I won my first NRA regional Creedmoor match and consider these two points, fussing over loading perfect bullets and having a good philosophy that dovetails with the mental preparedness, and I think about which has had the most influence on the outcome of all the matches between then and now one thing becomes clear. While I have always fussed over and worried about my bullets it has been the times when I was mentally prepared and had my head in the game while I was laying behind my rifle that I shot my best had the best chance to prevail. On those occasions I actually gave no thought as to whether or not my bullets were perfect as I was shooting.

Perfect bullets in and of themselves will not put your shots in the center of the target, but bullets that are slightly less than perfect can with the correct use of the sights and proper reading of the condition cluster close enough to the center to win the match. Your experience may be different but that has been mine.

[bruce m]

too true jim, but why not have both?
the old saying about prior preparation?
bruce.

[semtav]

Being kinda a simpleton, if I'm strictly shooting a rifle at 8-9-1000, would it be just as well to set my front sight approx 3 min left of my 100 yd zero and just forget about it?

[bruce m]

not simple at all brian.
probably setting spindrift for 900 would be a very effective technique.
bruce.

[Distant Thunder]

too true jim, but why not have both?
the old saying about prior preparation?
bruce.

bruce,

I agree with you that perfect bullets would be nice to have.

I'm quite sure somewhere in the many, many thousands of bullets I have made over the years there were probably a few perfect ones. I have often said that my bullets are not perfect, but they are very consistent! I find it fairly easy to make consistent bullets and nearly impossible to make perfect bullets consistently. Especially in the quantity that would allow me the trigger time to learn what it takes to put most of my shots near enough to center to win.

If we were shooting bench rest at 100 or 200 yards perfect bullets would have a decided advantage. At long range I think the odds favor the shooter who can read the conditions and make the correction to put the next the majority of his shots on paper and nearer the center. Perfect bullets still would not guarantee they would all go in the 10-ring.

I think F-Class proves that. Their bullets are much closer to perfect than ours could ever be and apparently not all of theirs go into the 10-ring at 1000 yards if the shooter doesn't put them there.

[bruce m]

jim,
i have probably worded stuff poorly.
getting everything perfect is really actually impossible.
but we can do the best we can.
certainly wind reading is right up there in priority, as is consistent wiping for a decent score.
when you think about it there are more than a few things you have to put in the package.
probably your best friend is where you put your mind, and put priorities in their place.
bruce.

[bruce m]

you mention fclass.
we read about guns shooting a perfect x count at 1000 yds, but i am here to tell you that a lot of those guns out there cannot actually hold good enough vert to actually do that.
and again 100.0 beats 99.9.
bruce.

[XTR]

It’s not getting your ammo perfect. It’s about getting your system (ammo+rifle) to the point that you have confidence in it so when one comes up where you didn’t expect it you don’t question the equipment. You know you pulled it or the wind caught you. Those are things you can correct, random vertical from a bad load you can’t.

[jackrabbit]

Excellent comment! I agree whole heartedly!

[Distant Thunder]

XTR,
For once you and I agree.

At some point the shooter has to take responsibility for that 7 @ 2 o'clock and know it was him that caused it to go there and have enough faith in his bullets and load to make the next shot go towards center. Just turning the knobs may not be the right move.

I believe am loading the most accurate ammo I ever have and I am shooting it from a rifle that has proven itself to be very capable. The thing I have the most control over is me, that's also the weakest link in the chain. I am more calm and more determined behind the rifle than I have ever been, but I still have to work at it to keep my mistakes at a minimum. Keeping my head in the game and experience make me better able to make the next shot a good one. That and a little luck and things can turn out pretty well!