Swiss standard cracked vs Caviar BP

[jackrabbit]

I agree Don! Thanks for posting that. The experimentation and search for a winning combination of gun and load is all part of the fun. In addition, I think it is bad advice to suggest not trying a product that is winning large black powder target rifle matches. As you know, these matches require the very best of accuracy to have any hope of ending up in the winner's circle. If Dave Gullo is using it, it must be good.
take care, Cody

[TexasMac]

Guys,
Thanks for the feedback on Caviar. Due to the limited available info on the powder and the feedback here the powder is obviously not popular. Therefore my recommendation to new BP shooters is to pass it up for the standard cracked Swiss.
Wayne

Why the heck would you do that

Seems the prudent thing to do would be to tell them to try at least 3 lbs of every brand of powder in the appropriate F size they can lay their hands on, keep meticulous notes on load data, and group size, then when the smoke clears get a case of the powder that showed the most promise, and get to work going to matches and learning to deal with all that goes with shooting a match.
We know there are a few shooters that are using the Caviar to very good affect. So recommending that some one don't try it due to lack of response on a forum somewhere seems rather ignorant to me.

Don,

Your suggestion may be appropriate for experienced BP shooters that have a refined loading & shooting technique & therefore a good basis to experiment & make valid comparisons. But in my opinion what you are suggesting is premature for a brand new BPCR shooter at ground zero concerning reloading and shooting BP. Start with the components that the majority of shooters use & experiment once you’ve got some experience under your belt.

Wayne

[bruce m]

so far this discussion has centered around accuracy only.
it seems that most decent powders will offer good enough accuracy if you do your homework.
other issues to consider might include.......
energy content of the powder.
if the powder offers more speed for the same weight etc, it might have more to offer.
fouling.
the less the powder fouls, the less you have to do to shoot well, and if wanting to shoot dirty the advantage is obvious.
also if the fouling is softer, it will either be dealt with quicker and better by wiping of blowtubing.
a 3rd but less important thing id how accurately it will throw in a lyman powder thrower, because that is what i prefer.
and of course when testing, just remember that 1 group doth not an accurate load ( or rifle) make.
shooting in match conditions for 1 year will tell the truth.
bruce.

[Woody]

what you are suggesting is premature for a brand new BPCR shooter at ground zero

Wayne, that's the worst reason I've ever heard for not recommending something. We are not children if we are playing this game.

Woody

[Don McDowell]

Wayne I'm going to disagree vehemently.

[TexasMac]

So, remembering when I 1st got into BPCR reloading & shooting, there was no way I had the experience to evaluate various components including BP. The 1st couple of matches I shot 4/40. 13 matches later I finally hit 10 pigs & not until match #18 did I end up with a score of over 20. Now I may have been a slow learner but I can assure you that as a beginner I had not developed the necessary reloading or shooting ability to properly evaluate various load combinations or types of BP.

So guy, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Wayne

[bruce m]

since this thread started, limited research has revealed only 1 claimed benefit of the caviar, and that is that more consistent charges can be thrown in a thrower.
to me this is not an issue, as i throw the charge and the trickle up to the weight.
to me droptubing is the great time user.
while doing these things i am leaving the compressed charged case in the compression die to ensure even and consistent compressed powder column height, so not wasting any time anyway.
bruce.

[Glen Ring]

Pyrodex RS has been pretty consistent for us. Two years ago we tried different Black powder brands and speeds. We finally tried Pyrodex RS and the search was over... for a while anyway. I have tried and will continue to try different combinations of Pyrodex and primers, different brands of Black powder and different crimps, lubes....

I think that tinkering and experimenting with different loads for different rifles is a lot of fun.

[bruce m]

another thought re caviar vs cracked.
i believe that the further you shoot, the more important velocity std deviation becomes.
the question is always there about ho to minimize s.d, and the answer often involves the best way to pack, and or compress if necessary as a means of achieving this.
should the round caviar pack. compress more evenly than the cracked, some benefit might be had in this area possibly through more consistent ignition.
however, when you can get extreme spread (harder than s.d. by the tune of 3x to 4x) down to 7 or even 4 fps with cracked 1f and 1.5f, to better this is a big ask, and within the law of diminishing returns.
maybe the big advantage, if any, of caviar if for muzzle loader shooters who simply use charges determined on a volumetric basis only.
gullo shoots a lot of muzzle loader.
bruce.

[BFD]

maybe the big advantage, if any, of caviar if for muzzle loader shooters who simply use charges determined on a volumetric basis only.
gullo shoots a lot of muzzle loader.
bruce.

Gullo, like every other muzzleloader shooter of merit, weighs every charge. I've sat and drank a few beers while he was doing it.

[bruce m]

thanks brent,
as a cartridge shooter i am not up on this too much.
i have read that some muzzle loaders prefer volumetric charges.
my self, i would weight them too.
bruce.

[BFD]

No one in the long range game uses volume. We all weigh and all charges are in premeasured vials before each match.