A 45-110 Dual diameter bullet design

[bruce m]

i make patch templates with different angles each end, so that the patches are longer at the base end than the nose end.
these patches run end to end on the bullet just like normal patches on a conventional bullet.
bruce.

Pictures ?

sorry grumpy.
technologically challenged.
bruce.

[Distant Thunder]

grumpy,

The template would be slightly longer on the base end than the nose end. It should be pretty easy to calculate by how much and then make a template. Or you could just patch a 2-D bullet with a patch cut for a bore diameter bullet and measure or guessimate how much longer the patch would need to be on the base end by looking at the wider gap and then make a template accordingly. Either way the two angles are not going to be parallel as they would be for a bore diameter bullet. The big end would have to always be put to the bottom of the bullet. The difference is so slight it might be hard to see just with your eye and the patches might require some sort of a directional identifier.

Or you could do like I do and just blow it off, wrap 'em, load 'em and shoot 'em. They still shoot better than any grease groove bullet I ever worked with.

[GrumpyBear]

Thanks Bruce and Jim. A new mouth to feed so I'm following this with lots of interest.

[bruce m]

jim,
why can you and others describe what i try to say so much better than i can?
bruce.

[Distant Thunder]

bruce,

You do a better job at explaining things than you might think. I follow your posts with interest.

[Distant Thunder]

I first learned how to shoot bore diameter paper patch bullets successfully a little more than 10 years ago. Back then I was shooting my excellent Shiloh .45-90 with a standard Shiloh chamber and as I have said before it was an amazingly accurate pp rifle.

As is often the case with BPCR shooters I had developed an itch for a new rifle, a Hepburn. So I slowly put together a Hepburn with a Badger .45 caliber barrel and I had every intention of chambering it for .45-90 like my Shiloh, but the suggestion was made to go with a tight paper patch chamber in .45-70. I thought it was worth a try for two reasons, Brent was shooting very well using that chamber and if it didn't work out I could run a .45-90 reamer in there and all would be good.

It took a little time to figure the Hepburn out, what with the flush handle on the side and all, but it quickly proved the .45-70 could do everything the .45-90 could do and with 20 grains less powder. So I set the .45-90 aside to play with the new rifle with every intention of going back to it when I tired of the Hepburn. It didn't take very long and I began to appreciate what L. L. Hepburn had designed, a most excellent rifle for shooting prone. As I worked with the tight chamber and the exact same bullet I had used in my .45-90 the rifle started shooting better and better. It's hard to put a good shooting rifle down and my Shiloh was now spending all it's time in the safe raising a herd of dust bunnies!

Now with Kenny working not only with a 2-D pp bullet but also working with the idea of seating it deeper in the case to bring the powder capacity down some I am most interested in seeing where this leads. I have for a long time held to the belief that pp target loads need to be seated very shallow to be accurate and I was seating my bore diameter pp bullets only .080 to .090" in the case. That is a good thing with the .45-70 because it allows room for the 83 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss that I use. In my .45-90 shallow seating made for great accuracy also but I was putting 100 to 105 grains of powder under the same bullet.

Working with my newly acquired .44-77 I was burning 90 plus grains of powder with shallow seated bore diameter pp bullets. I know from pictures that the ODG did seat their pp bullet shallow, but not always. There are many pictures showing the .44-77 and .44-90 with pp bullets seated deeper. So recently I began to experiment with that idea in my .44-77. I have not wrung the load out completely yet but by seating a bore diameter pp bullet .330" deep I have a load that is shooting pretty well and instead of 90 or more grains I'm at 86 grains. The important part about 86 grains in this bottleneck case is the fouling, at 90 and a bit more under a shallow seated pp bullet the fouling was a problem. Now at 86 grains or a bit less it is manageable and accuracy is as good as it was when seated .090" deep. There is no doubt that a very good chamber and good concentric brass help make this possible. I have neck turned my .44-77 cases and that has helped a bunch.

I'll be watching Kenny as he works with his 2-D pp project here with thoughts of applying what we learn to my .45-90. While fouling control has never been a problem in the straight cased .45s recoil and burning what I consider unnecessary amounts of powder would be nice to avoid.

Now that I'm retired and have so much time with nothing to do (that is a lie) this may give me an excuse to brush those dust bunnies aside and resurrect my old .45-90 at least for a time just to see what it can do with a 2-D pp but seated a little deeper. The experimenting never ends!

[Kurt]

Now Jim, be aware of the warning of the man that just shoots one rifle.

[Distant Thunder]

Why, Kurt, I do only shoot one rifle......., at a time!

And besides, it's not my fault there are so many rifles out there! The same thing goes for bullet molds, there are so many available! It is exceedingly difficult for a mere mortal such as myself to resist. Then when you add in all the enablers, of which you are one, and it's quite understandable that a man would have at least a few options within his reach.

[semtav]

My psychiatrist is not gonna be happy with me when I show up for my next session.
He thought he had me cured of this terrible addiction, when i got that one bullet working so good.

then I had to slip in a little pill order for my 40-50 under the radar, but what would just one little mould hurt ??

There was a reason I was avoiding those DD bullets like the plague !!

If this bullet of Kennys works, I'm gonna want another one for my 45-2.6, then maybe the 40-65, then those boring 45-70's are gonna start looking sexy. then..................

Maybe I'll just fire my psychiatrist so I can afford all these !!

[Distant Thunder]

It's a darn good thing that these rifles, and the many bullet molds they require, take a few dollars to stack up or I would have trouble keeping track of how many I own, a number which escape at the moment. Not an uncommon situation at my age!

[Kurt]

Jim,
I have a friend that gives me that warning at every match I think most of us have that decease

It's not the moulds that will give us a problem, they are easy to make compared to the brass cases. I hear a lot of negatives about the Starline cases, but we should be thankful that company is around.

[Kurt]

Brian,
I'm going back to the groove diameter bullets.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I have always seated the PP bullet deep in the case, with the Shiloh Standard chamber, in both of my Creedmoor rifles, the Old Hell Bitch, and Dora the 25# rifle. And I have always used FG Goex and Goex Express. Last few years have played with Olde Eynsford in 1.5, I believe it is too much of a good thing in the 45-110. I happened to find a case and half of Goex Express FG that my exGf had moved after my accident while she was rearranging my garage. And will be using that for a while, probably go to FG Eynsford after that.

KennyWasserburger

[Don McDowell]

I like the OE 1f in the 110, and 40-90 bn.

[gunlaker]

I liked that old Goex Express FFg. It was the powder that worked best for me in my Sharps with Dan T's .45-70 PP chamer.

Kenny my .45-110 has shot the best when I just copied your load, most particularly the wad stack . I've got to get a couple more bags of those felt wads.

Chris.