the era

[Glen Ring]

The NRA files several lawsuits each year reference firearms restrictions...If you feel you have been screwed...file your lawsuits in federal and state court. I eagerly await the filing so I can read your legal complaint.

[SSShooter]

Would be interesting to see a year-by-year breakdown of what the NRA actually spends on various items over the last 10-20 years (2nd Amendment litigation, advertising, competition, etc.). Not what they tell us they spend, but where the money really goes. An independent, outside audit. Remember, their attorneys in OKC are involved up to their eyeballs in all these lawsuits that the various folks like lapierre and ollie north and, and............. have been filing against one another. All these attorneys filing these lawsuits, which have zero to do with defending the 2nd Amendment are also being paid for by someone................ mostly likely us, but we'll never know if its up to the NRA.

[Steve Sudbeck]

This is the internet and a subset of a social media platform so I am going to agree with the majority opinion (whatever it is) because I want to be accepted and I want to be liked because I have no self-esteem. So whatever position the majority takes, I agree with that position and I continue to patiently wait for my LRE in 45-70.

[Don McDowell]

This thing isn't going to happen at the snap of the finger. Lots of hurdles to get over first.
I'm doubtful that simply moving the state of incorporation will get them away from any violations that happened under New York law. So that will still have to be dealt with.
Bankruptcy will go to a federal bankruptcy court, if the judge thinks there's merit, there will likely be a special master assigned. That special master will do a deep dive into the books, and any changes in expenses, or liquidation of assets, will have to be approved.
Going to be a while before the dust settles on this.

[Glen Ring]

I'll ask again...How has the NRA screwed you? One shooter from Australia asked a group of shooters in Raton once, who were bashing the NRA," What do you expect for your Dues?' I thought that was brilliant.
I do not care what anyone 's salary or perks are in the NRA, Wal-Mart, or any organization that is responsible for putting on matches.

Jeanne gave up her very lucrative retirement job a few summers ago, to be the NRA National Silhouette Match Director.
She started planning and setting things in motion the day... Minute..The NRA called and asked her. She worked uncompensated everyday for MONTHS recruiting help,setting safety procedures in place, target setters, grader driver, dinner and door prizes and limiting liability in the event of a law suit.

The NRA paid for her room and gave her a per diem for food. We lost thousands in income for that time period and although there were MANY thank yous and compliments, she still had to deal with the crank's complaints on a daily basis. She ( and the others that worked with her ) did all that hoping she was making a difference for the majority of shooters .

At the competitor meeting one crank stood up and yelled his question pointing at Jeanne " HOW MUCH IS SHE BEING PAID?' The answer is a simple one..None of your business, but She stated she would make sure that shooter could have all her keys and be paid EXACTLY the same if he decided to Be the national match director...and he hasn't. The vast majority of old bitchers will NEVER run a match...they are miserable and bitch at everything from the target setters to the food.

I want to shoot a Black powder target rifle match to 1000 yards before I quit shooting. If I pay an entry fee to The BPTRA, I really don't give a crap what they do with the money and who gets paid what. None of my business as a competitor as long as the match is safe and well ran.

When Kenny Tebbe put on a match a couple of years ago I paid my entry fee and shot a VERY well ran and SAFE match. I don't give a crap what was done with the money.

[Don McDowell]

I
I want to shoot a Black powder target rifle match to 1000 yards before I quit shooting. If I pay an entry fee to The BPTRA, I really don't give a crap what they do with the money and who gets paid what. None of my business as a competitor as long as the match is safe and well ran.

Here ya go, silhouette, midrange creedmoor and 1000
https://azmuzzleloading.com/index.php/long-range/

[Glen Ring]

Thank you Don. I'll only have a 45-70...but I just want to shoot 1000 yards before I croak. Never been in a target pit, have no idea how it works, but there won't be anyone at the match that will outwork me once I get the hang of things.

[TAA]

Having been running various local matches off and on for about 40 years, I can appreciate the above frustration with the whiners.

These people have three character flaws....
They have a lot to say and want to hear it all.
They would never offer to help, run a match or take on a director’s position.
They suffer from envy, always concerned with how much money someone else gets paid. Must be a Democrat.

FWIW

Tom

[drcook]

Having been running various local matches off and on for about 40 years, I can appreciate the above frustration with the whiners.

These people have three character flaws....
They have a lot to say and want to hear it all.
They would never offer to help, run a match or take on a director’s position.
They suffer from envy, always concerned with how much money someone else gets paid. Must be a Democrat.

FWIW

Tom

So you think it is whining exposing waste ? How can you defend the amount of money InfoCision is sidetracking, all in the name of duping people that they are supporting the NRA ?

Please explain how that is being a Democrat.

Also please explain how not wanting to fund the lawsuits the different members are filing against each other is being a Democrat ?

I am all ears.

[Glen Ring]

I agree Tom.
Jeanne and I have been match directors for 12 years. We have heard it all . One day a shooter, who was invited to not come back, was complaining about EVERYTHING at one of our regional s. He wanted me to know the tower guy was calling it all wrong. I then asked if he'd take the mic and show us how it's done. He said " No, I want to just shoot.' and I said ' So does the tower guy, but he gave up shooting this match to call it for YOU, so get off his ass."

We have made mistakes running matches, like calling the wrong relay number and not having dinner with a meal THEY liked, but we work very hard and have many more compliments than complaints.
Two years ago we took up BPCR Silhouette and at the request of several, started putting on matches. I BEGGED jeanne to be the match director and that was MY mistake. No one likes a "colonial" shooter that treats the match director like their employee...so we gave up that match director job..and I still apologize to Jeanne for asking her. That did inspire Jeanne to buy a new 1885 and she practices a LOT to beat that old whiner at every match. Never piss off a woman.
We still run lever action silhouette and precision 22 matches who are attended by younger, happy folks .

[Don McDowell]

Thank you Don. I'll only have a 45-70...but I just want to shoot 1000 yards before I croak. Never been in a target pit, have no idea how it works, but there won't be anyone at the match that will outwork me once I get the hang of things.

No problem with the 45-70, plenty of folks use them in long range matches. There are probably better cartridges once a fella gets to doing the Creedmoor stuff, but that 45-70 will certainly get you in the game.
Getting the hang of things is pretty easy.
Give it a try , you may become a bptr convert.

[TAA]

Might want to be careful how you read something.

The whining is directed at people at a match who ask how much someone makes. The question has nothing to do with the match and does not contribute to the fun people are trying to have. As Glenn noted above, when you are a match director you get to wrestle with all kinds of personalities, some of the negative and unproductive. You’ve probably heard of match director burnout. Those whiners contribute to that. And when the MD has had enough and walks away, those whiners would not be caught dead stepping up to help.

The Democrat part could have been expressed instead as “envy driven socialist”.

I was not addressing the NRA. Members and shooters cannot change the behavior of entrenched leadership but maybe we can change the people in those roles, who knows. I’ve not heard at a match or a club meeting about the poor behavior of WLP. This forum is the first and only place I’ve learned of these accusations. Maybe I don’t get out enough!

Tom

[drcook]

There are only 2 things you really need to make sure of to shoot 1000 yards with a 45-70.

1. First and foremost a sight with enough adjustment to get you there. If you don't have enough sight adjustment, everything else is a moot point.

2. A load capable of hanging together out to 1000 and enough oomph to get there.

I recommend doing your load development at 200 yards. That gives enough room for the bullet to settle down and see if it is going to group. While 100 yard groups look nice, it is at 200 where it starts to get serious.

If you can shoot a 2 to 3 inch group at 200 yards there is a pretty good chance that 1000 is going to be attainable and accurately attainable at that.

Accuracy is within reason of the rifle and sight combination of course. You are not going to shoot as good with a 45-70 and soule sights as, say a precision rifle with a 6x24x50 scope that the scope itself cost a minimum of a $1000.00. My buddy shoots a mile easily, but his scope alone costs what a Shiloh with some nice additions does.

[drcook]

It goes to say that read is the same as writing. If the written word is not specific enough, the read word cannot be also and can be intrepretted in a very broad manner. What you meant to say in your mind does not always come across via a keyboard.

[TAA]

drcook,

Good observation and commentary, thanks!

Tom