the era

[Glen Ring]

I have wanted to shoot 1000 yards with a black powder rifle since I watched Quigley Down Under. I'm running out of life time. I have a few questions about my 45-70. Can I use a scope? I have a DZ scope mounted on it, but if I need to use sights I can buy one off of Steve Baldwin. Is target shooting at 1000 meters similar to using a front sight round objective like in air rifle, where the ring surrounds the black??
last, but not least, I cannot get Swiss black powder here. I guess I could have some shipped in, but my very understanding wife always asks.." Why does that say explosive ?" So we use Pyrodex in BPCR silhouette and at 500 meters the guns shoot it as well as BP..so is Pyrodex legal in BPTR? Many questions and some may sound stupid to old target shooters, but if I can't ask here where can I ask. I have introduced my Grandson to BPCR 22 and want him to shoot BPCR silhouette, and BPCR target rifle...but if I don't know how to do something...he will never be taught.

[Don McDowell]

Scopes that meet bpcrs regulations are legal.
Yes the same principle applies to front apertures.
Yes Pyrodex is legal, except for if a match bulletin explicitly says blackpowder only.

[Distant Thunder]

Glen,

If you can load your .45-70 to 1250 to 1300 fps with with a 500 grain plus bullet of good design the .45-70 can be very competitive in Creedmoor matches.

I have used two different .45-70 rifles and have done well with both. Both of these rifles have a 1 in 18 twist and I assume yours is the same. In my C. Sharps 1874 I used the Lyman 457132 Postell over 80 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss and in my Hepburn, that I now shoot, I use a paper patch elliptical over 83 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss. When I used my Shiloh .45-90, also an 18-twist, I used a more or less Creedmoor design gg bullet at 520 grains over 85 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss, not a lot more than either of my .45-70s. When I made the switch to paper patch the .45-90 seemed like too much powder capacity and I went back to a .45-70 when I built my Hepburn.

If you do have an 18-twist I think either one of these two bullets should work well for grease groove type, JIM459512C3 (512 grains) or JIM459520M2 (520 grain). Just keep the length around 1.440" and get as much 1 1/2 Swiss under it as you can, 75 to 80 grains will get you there, more is better.

If you're anything like me you'll be hooked for the rest of your days after your first shot at 1000 yards! That's all it took for me and I have never looked back. Don't let the distance cause you any concern, it's just a different sight setting everything else is pretty much the same. Go to a match, shoot and have fun!

[Don McDowell]

Don't under estimate the 1000 yard ability of the BACO 525 gr bullet cast from 16-1 over 70 grains of OE 2f and a .030 fiber wad..

[Glen Ring]

Thank you very much guys. I now have a goal for this summer. I think my 45-70 can hang at two or three inches at 200 meters. On a really still day I can keep the majority of my shots on a 10 inch plate at 500 meters. I'll need to make a trip to Raton to get sight settings. Thanks Guys

[Glen Ring]

Don, Drcook, Jim
I do not have a chronograph, but we have plenty of steel out to 500 meters for load testing. I think I can use a ballistic calculator to get me in the area at the other ranges. Are they 600,700,800,900 and 1000 yards or meters? How many rounds will I need for a match? Is there time to clean my rifle after each stage/distance?

[Don McDowell]

Midrange is shot at one of these , 2,3 and 600 yards or 3,5 and 600 yards.
Creedmoor is shot at 8,9 and 1000 yards. Altho there are some matches that are shot purely at 1000.
Typically midrange is shot 4 sighters and 10 for score at each distance.
Creedmoor is generally unlimited sighters and 10 for score at each distance. But again there are matches that are shot unlimited sighters and 15 for score.
Back when the NRA BPTR nationals were held, a shooter needed 180 rounds for score over the 6 days, with at least an additional 60 rounds to allow for sighters.
The match at Phoenix will require something over 300 rounds to shoot the full venue.

[John Bly]

Glen, Black powder is no more dangerous than that can of gasoline in your garage for your lawn mower or that propane bottle for your gas grill. Used as it is supposed to be used with common sense and appropriate safety precautions there is no danger. Thousands of us use it regularly for years without incident. Yes, Once in a while someone has an accident and gets hurt but those incidents are extremely rare.

[Glen Ring]

Thanks Don. I don't think I have 300 pieces of brass for my 45-70...so I better choose a BPTR match that doesn't require all that shooting.
John
I know what you say is true..but I don't keep gas or a propane bottle in the garage either. I have almost always carried two guns, two knives, extra survival gear in each car, and Jeanne and I never take the same elevator.
We were watching Life below zero and the trapper guy in Alaska was MILES from his cabin one night and his snowmobile broke down. He had to walk in 30 below weather for miles . Jeanne turned to me and said " you'd have had a trailer on the back of that first snowmobile towing a back up snowmobile full of gas. Yep, I am that careful.

[drcook]

Glen Ring,

If you get a chance, and if someone picks up and carries forward the Sagebrush shoot, I would recommend going there to shoot. There is nothing like
the experience of a gong shoot of the caliber that Harlan Sage put on.

I had the privilege to meet many of the folks on this board there in person and struck up some good friendships. There is not so much cut throat competitiveness as there is a good time wrapped around a shooting match. Or a shooting match wrapped around a good time.

If the Sagebrush shoot goes away, see if there is going to be another long range gong shoot to attend out West there. Shooting with the folks, visiting in the evening, having dinner with everyone, you just can't beat it and you will have fun shooting at the extended ranges.

[Kurt]

I never leave home with out 1800 to 2000 rounds going to the Baker Mt. and the Quigley shoots and once I ran out of ammo and could not shoot the match. The next time I went to the Baker shoot the match director's Daughter confiscated 100 rounds before heading to the Quigley so I had enough to shoot the second Baker match. LOL.
If your going to shoot.......shoot!!

[monkeyboy]

The Sagebrush match is already scheduled in for 2021 on the Alliance Rifle Club calendar and in addition 22 and lever gun side matches have been added on Friday.---Mike.

[Glen Ring]

Jeanne and I were going to shoot a gong match in west Texas last year..before the virus thing hit. I hope we can shoot one or more this year. Thanks for cluing us in on these matches. We have been married 43 years and shoot together..but be advised if you're shooting near us, we like to cut up and have FUN !!

[Don McDowell]

You might want to take a look at the Midwest Championship match in Alliance on mothers day weekend. Bring the 22 and lever guns (cast bullets).
A purely 1000 yard gong match the Dean Scoggins Memorial match at Alliance the last weekend in July. And as already mentioned there's the Sagebrush match at the same range in August, and that would tie in to make a good trip and catch the High Plains Challenge match at Byers, 1000 yards no spotter. One of the most fun and challenging matches around, other than the Creedmoor Cup at Lodi, and the Steve Rhodes Memorial in Phoenix in March.

[Kurt]

I'm going to make the Alliance shoots again. It has always fallen at the wrong time and still the Mothers day match is during the Lodi.
But I miss the Alliance shoot. A lot of good people there and some have gone to the other side.