Lead free options???

[Williamsmattc]

I suspect this question will be avoided like a beggar in front of a bank, but here goes!

I just got my new Shiloh in .45-110 and will be shooting mainly paper patched bullets and occasionally some greasers. I also plan to hunt with the rifle. The problem is my hone state of California will not allow any hunting with bullets containing lead. Yes this is a sore subject with those of us stuck here!

With the .45-110 I will only use black powder, so I have two options:

Cast my bullets with the very expensive rotometal bullet material.

Or shoot a lead free copper bullet such as the Barnes.

Does anyone have any experience with either of these options when shooting with black powder?

I don’t know how hard the rotometal bullet alloy is and I’m not sure if I can get the velocity required to open an all copper bullet. I have reached out to Barnes, but no response so far.

If the bullets will open at BP velocity, I am thinking a good charge of black with an over powder wad should work...

Thoughts?

[bruce m]

you might not need an over powder wad with barnes if they seal in the bore.
even if they don't perfectly seal, it might not matter.
bruce,

[bruce m]

have you looked at the barnes 300 gn tac x for the 458 socom.
it is 458 diameter, and would probably move out the mail in your gun.
original 303 ammunition was jacketed and loaded with black powder in lee enfield repeaters,
at leas one other european cartridge was loaded similarly for repeaters.
from what i can gather they shot acceptably without grease wads etc.
however this is a bit of not known territory.
some of those banded barnes might be able to be dip or pan lubed in order to potentially help with fouling.
bruce.

[bruce m]

have you looked at the barnes 300 gn tac x for the 458 socom.
it is 458 diameter, and would probably move out the mail in your gun.
original 303 ammunition was jacketed and loaded with black powder in lee enfield repeaters,
at leas one other european cartridge was loaded similarly for repeaters.
from what i can gather they shot acceptably without grease wads etc.
however this is a bit of not known territory.
some of those banded barnes might be able to be dip or pan lubed in order to potentially help with fouling.
bruce.

[77 sharps]

I don’t think you can cast your own lead free bullets. If I read the regulations correctly they have to be certified lead free. Other then not being in the spirit of historic shooting my problem with a Barnes bullet is BP fouling under copper fouling attracting moisture and forming a pit. The Barnes TSX bullet has a meplat big enough that it will kill well even if it didn’t expand at all, so I wouldn’t think twice about that.

[Smokin Joe]

California certified ammunition list:

https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonlead ... /Certified

[Kurt]

What do the regulations say about Bismuth ? Bismuth is is a byproduct from refining Gold, Silver, lead and tin and it's non toxic.
I have cast bullets using with a very little tin and bismuth and they shoot just as good as lead tin.
And there is always the option using pure tin.

[Williamsmattc]

What do the regulations say about Bismuth ? Bismuth is is a byproduct from refining Gold, Silver, lead and tin and it's non toxic.
I have cast bullets using with a very little tin and bismuth and they shoot just as good as lead tin.
And there is always the option using pure tin.

The Rotometal “bullet casting” alloy I mentioned is 88% Bismuth and 12% tin. It is also on the California certified lead free list. They will cast a little light, but I am curious how they would shoot in PP or greaser form.

[Williamsmattc]

I don’t think you can cast your own lead free bullets. If I read the regulations correctly they have to be certified lead free. Other then not being in the spirit of historic shooting my problem with a Barnes bullet is BP fouling under copper fouling attracting moisture and forming a pit. The Barnes TSX bullet has a meplat big enough that it will kill well even if it didn’t expand at all, so I wouldn’t think twice about that.

The Rotometal “bullet casting alloy” is listed as approved by Ca.

[Kurt]

For several years now I been working on a alloy passed on the Bismuth but I'm using 2-3% tin with other things like powdered copper/ bronze/tin in the mix and it reduces the bullet weight quite a lot, cast and swaged.
The recovered bullets look good using it but I have not shot them passed 200 yards to see how that light bullet holds up.
I shot some at the rams using the .44-77 and it put them down but they go down slower than a 1/18 L/T/Antimony bullet.

[Don McDowell]

I would suggest that if casting your own bismuth bullets is out, then maybe take a look at what Northfork bullets offers, as they don't have near the copper fouling troubles as Barnes bullets do. Have no experience with Hornady's monolithic bullets so can't comment on those.

[Kurt]

Unfortunately I think sooner or later the no lead movement will hit us shooting these rifles and we will have to make some changes.

[Williamsmattc]

Unfortunately I think sooner or later the no lead movement will hit us shooting these rifles and we will have to make some changes.

I’m praying your wrong, but have a feeling we will see it.

[Bulseyetom]

Copy the paperwork from Rotometals that certifies that it is lead free and carry it with you in case you are checked. That is what I do when hunting with my muzzleloader shotgun. I wonder what the bhn number is of the bismuth alloy? It might take a different mould to cast to the diameter that you need if the bullet is to hard. One other source of 45 caliber copper bullets is hammerbullets.com. Tom

[Williamsmattc]

Copy the paperwork from Rotometals that certifies that it is lead free and carry it with you in case you are checked. That is what I do when hunting with my muzzleloader shotgun. I wonder what the bhn number is of the bismuth alloy? It might take a different mould to cast to the diameter that you need if the bullet is to hard. One other source of 45 caliber copper bullets is hammerbullets.com. Tom

Thank you. Good idea on the paperwork. If the bullet casts a little undersized I can adjust my patching, if it’s over I can size the bullet.