Thoughts on chambering

[mdeland]

I'm a real believer in the bore diameter of 45 caliber as it seems to be one of those convergence points in nature or physics that is most at equilibrium with weight, cross section and ballistic potential. I believe this is the reason so many different case capacities and bullet styles are easy to get accuracy from with this bore diameter.
I love the 45-70 and have made two match rifle in the caliber for Midrange shooting that has dried up in AK. If I was going to shoot long range than I'm sure I would go with the 45-90 as it probably is the best balance of the requirements needed for success at these ranges.

[bruce m]

xtr,
bullet stability with black powder cartridges is a science unto itself.
the reason being that the bullets are transonic for much of their flight.
as a smokeless shooter, you have probably seen guys come out in a sweat at the mere thought of their bullets approaching the top end of transonic.
the bottom line is that bullets in transonic flight seem to need a greater gyroscopic stability than supersonic.
s.g. of 1.5 just won't cut it at long range , with s.g. of 2 being better.
s.g of 1.5 in slow twist barrels will work at 200.
mike is right about the 45 cal.
in standard rifles you can buy it is as big as you can go and still cope with the recoil.
you do not have to get custom twist barrels, just buy a rifle and go shoot.
there are many good bullet moulds available.
50 cal is probably better in theory, but to shoot the bullets you need for long range fast enough can make life interesting.
40 cal with a custom twist can mix it with 45 cals, but you have to think more to get the result.
bruce.

[semtav]

semtav,
how much swiss powder can you droptube into a 40/82 case so that a wad is level with the case mouth?
bruce.

Im not sure. Ill have to check
. I know last year i made up a few rounds for the frostbite and misread my scale and got 90 in it and it was still below the top with a .030 wad on it.
Probably only 1 or 2 grain more .

[bruce m]

brian,
if it takes 90+ to the top with a wad it might just be about the ideal long range 40 cal pp rifle with either a dual diameter bullet in a greaser chamber, or a straight bore diameter bullet in a proper bore diameter chamber.
a nice balance of capacity, and brass can easily be formed from available product.
bruce.

[semtav]

Yea. Always wanted to try a DD bullet in it, but just too many projecrs going on.

[jackrabbit]

As we all know, in the smokeless world different cartridges have very unique personalities, positives, negatives, and usefulnesses. 22 hornet vs 223 vs 22 swift for example. I believe trying to use this ideology in the BPCR world is a fallacy. In BPCR, with black powder, it is basically how many grains of powder behind how many grains of lead. For silhouette and midrange, 350-450 grains of lead ahead of 55-70 grains of powder seems good. Of course you can go bigger, but you have more recoil. In long range, you need more than 500 grains of lead and 70 grains of powder is a minimum. The shape of the bottle used to transport this load to the firing line is less important.

I am sure many shooters will disagree with me, but I just don't see a big enough difference between many of the cartridges to consider. 40-70 bottlneck vs 40-65 vs 40-70 straight. Some are harder to find brass for than others but performance is very similar. The research, handloading and messing around is all part of the fun, so if someone wants an oddball cartridge, more power to them. The fact remains 40-65, 45-70, and 45-90 are the 3 best choices to choose form when one considers performance and component availability. 40-65 for silhouette and midrange, 45-90 for long range, and 45-70 for a compromise between the two. Anything outside of this is fun, but unnecessary. Kind of like building a wildcat smokeless round in todays world. Fun but not necessary as there are plenty of factory cartridges that will duplicate performance and for a fraction of the investment.

Opinions are like buttholes, everybody's got one and they all stink! So there's mine, have a sniff.....
Cody

[MikeT]

I am on that same page, jackrabbit.
And magic bullets are probably a myth.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[Ray Newman]

"There Is No magic Bullet" by Lee Shaver

Read all 'bout it: https://www.singleshotexchange.com/ther ... ic-bullet/

[bpcr shooter]

dad runs a DDPP in his 40-82, Its a design by Beltfed (Arnie S). If I remember it was 86gr of 1.5f, seated .100 in the case, but dont quote me. I can check on that tomorrow when I go over there.

The 44cal's are kind of different, not in a bad way. Getting one re-barreled at Shiloh now in 44-70. I have a friend who has a hepburn in 44-100. His takes 104.5gr of 1.5f swiss with a DDPP bullet, my 45-100 takes 108.5gr of the same powder and DDPP bullet.

You can always take the plunge and get a bottleneck cartridge!!! little bit of work to get them to shoot but when they do...watch out!!!


matt

[Don McDowell]

I like the way my 44-90 st holds elevation at 1000
I find it to be a Breyer voice than the 45-90
The 44-77 that paved the way for those upstart 45’s can also do very well
Problem is the 44 bottle necks won’t work in the slimmer action of the 77 mentioned at the star of this thread
I can guarantee that if Kirk were to call and say he was go into try some 17 twist 44 cal barrels and had a reamer in the original Remington pattern held get my deposit on one of those 77’s just like my 45-90 only this time would have an ebony nose cap
Been in the pits pulling targets when the wind picked up those bullets from a 40-82 started leaving egg shaped holes and the score started dropping
44 and 45 caliber is where it’s at when the distance starts past 600

[Don McDowell]

I like the way my 44-90 st holds elevation at 1000
I find it to be a Breyer voice than the 45-90
The 44-77 that paved the way for those upstart 45’s can also do very well
Problem is the 44 bottle necks won’t work in the slimmer action of the 77 mentioned at the star of this thread
I can guarantee that if Kirk were to call and say he was go into try some 17 twist 44 cal barrels and had a reamer in the original Remington pattern held get my deposit on one of those 77’s just like my 45-90 only this time would have an ebony nose cap
Been in the pits pulling targets when the wind picked up those bullets from a 40-82 started leaving egg shaped holes and the score started dropping
44 and 45 caliber is where it’s at when the distance starts past 600

[Don McDowell]

I like the way my 44-90 st holds elevation at 1000
I find it to be a better choice than the 45-90
The 44-77 that paved the way for those upstart 45’s can also do very well
Problem is the 44 bottle necks won’t work in the slimmer action of the 77 mentioned at the star of this thread
I can guarantee that if Kirk were to call and say he was go into try some 17 twist 44 cal barrels and had a reamer in the original Remington pattern held get my deposit on one of those 77’s just like my 45-90 only this time would have an ebony nose cap
Been in the pits pulling targets when the wind picked up those bullets from a 40-82 started leaving egg shaped holes and the score started dropping
44 and 45 caliber is where it’s at when the distance starts past 600

[Don McDowell]

Damn iffy buddy phone screens

[Don McDowell]

Damn iffy buddy phone screens

[bruce m]

don,
i would ask you what twists and bullet lengths those 40/82s had.
for a year i had my markers photograph every shot i fired from mu 40/72, and when i worked out the max length for the twist, there was never and egg shaped hole ever again.
in actual fact egg shaped holes tended to appear at 700 /800 yds and then the too long bullets seemed to make round holes at 1000 again.
when you get those egg shaped holes at a mit range, the shots will invariably be lower at 1000.
there is a lot of condemnation of 40 cals at long range, but much less comment on what allows them to perform at those ranges.
i can remember having my bullets go through 3 wind flags, and while there was a few elevation shots they were still point first and hit the target.
40 cals can do it, but you just need to put a bit of thought into twist and bullet length, and then experiment to verify.
as far a 44s are concerned, i believe kurt found 17 twist to work quite well with the bullets he was using.
there can be little difference between 44 and 45 cal other than 45 cal stuff is just easier to come by.
any noticeable difference in performance in flight would be more due to choice of bullet for twist and how well the load is worked up.
the old dead guys would have quickly deserted the "new" 45 had it not at least equalled the 44.
bruce.